Nineteen Canteen

You need to ask yourself was Poortvliet's time at Saints a shambles or merely a product of the shambles that went before in the previous two seasons. In isolation I agree with you and in hindsight why not simply hire Wotte as he at least talked a better game than Poortvliet. The problem is you cannot look at the appointment of the Dutch in isolation without taking into account the events of the previous two years to lead Saints to have to consider such options. Many out of work managers I suspect would not be willing to work for such low wages and if they did I would argue they would be no better than the dutch and minus the opportunity to at least put a positive spin on the new set up. Anyway back on topic looks like the boot boy is losing it - back to 4th without kicking a ball - his luck must be deserting him.

Yes at the time as I said in my post I fully understood the reasons to let Pearson go as he took us from 18th to the brink of relegation with 20 minutes to go and the reliance on one of two teams slipping up and doing us a favour. You cannot deny Peason has been a lucky manager and there was nothing in his short tenure at Saints that screamed hire me. Other posters in the know on here have subsequently shed some light on the hire of the dutch duo and reading between the lines we got the best we could afford and no doubt created a much needed angle to spin.

I was merely suggesting that as MLT was in attendance to have another celebrity with a football background may have excluded other people who attended the event without an interest in football. If I attended for instance I would have enjoyed the MLT speech but my wife somewhat less so and perhaps a local celebrity from the TV with some different ancedotes would have been preferable. I apologise if I caused offence but it's just an opinion and the next time I see our friends/neighbours I shall be asking them if they are aware of the charity (i'm sure they are) and do what I can in my own small way to help. I sincerely hope the evening made a lot of money and that perhaps future evenings are a little less exclusive when it comes to guest speakers because I would have difficultly persuading my other half to spend a couple of hundred quid on a night out to listen to solely football celebrities. I take Weston's point that McMenemy was an unadvertised bonus but had I attended my wife wouldn't have been the only one groaning and I suspect others may have felt same IMO. I don't dispute LM does a lot of good work for good causes but to book him when you already have a major sporting celebrity in attendance I thought was short sighted. I apologise if that is not fair comment but it is my opinion. I will say no more on the matter as clearly I got it wrong in many people's opinions to discuss it on this thread even though the event had passed and I was merely trying to offer food for thought for future events.

Certainly - they both (MLT and LM) come from football so I thought it would be better to attract a guest speaker from another walk of life. Now perhaps you can clarify what you were suggesting by your comment 'a lot of it without payment'.

All I am suggesting is that by widening the band of celebrities i.e not just sport or football you cast a bigger net and hopefully to catch more people wanting to attend and contribute. I too hope they have collected money by the truckload as we have friends locally living with autism and we know how impossible life can be for them. The point is for some if it's just football or whatever they won't come and considering MLT was already there in this instance perhaps a local TV Celeb as I suggested earlier may have helped boost numbers even more. It was just an idea/thought/opinion.

BS I think it is you who are on dangerous ground because I did not say anything that would get me into trouble with regard either person and to question the merits of Osman as an entertainer is no different than say discussing the merits of Paul Wotton. Perhaps you may be in hot water for suggesting that: 'McMenemy has done a lot of charity work over the years, a lot of it without payment'. Personally, I would always assume charity work is always voluntary and given freely so not sure what your motive is for suggesting otherwise. I go back to my original point, IMO charities are better served by widening the attraction to their potential audience.

Not surprised by the response but I don't consider myself foul and disgusting for suggesting that a charity should be represented by celebrities from other areas other than football or sport. A neighbour of ours have a 8 year old son severely handicapped by autism and they are not sports fans by any stretch of the imagination. I was not belittling the efforts of MLT but considering his background merely questioned the booking of McMenemy as celebrity guest. It may surprise people on here that not everyone will be filled with joy by the prospect of an evening with solely sports stars invited. With young children who find it difficult to communicate perhaps more accessible and familiar celebrities would make for a better connection . People like, Chris Packham, Fred Dineage and Sally Taylor to name just a few of the obvious local celebs who like McMenemy if approached would give their time just as freely and willingly. Apologies if you missed my point.

Zero points for originality, don't bother with the review I doubt his story has changed. Is LM more special than MLT? I hope you raised lots of money and everyone gave their time freely but why does the society have to have the football theme. No doubt there are those impacted by autism who do not have an interest in football and surely MLT could have lined up other local celebrities to attend to ensure everyone could relate to at least one of the celebrities.

Very eloquent. The sort of reponse that allows me to take a 1 nil lead in Canteen vs Gemmel game. Have you ever read Catch 22, Gemmel? You even make Major Major look less mediocre. Insult me by all means but don't insult me by your lack of wit and originality.

I agree with this and certainly the last two games they would have been lucky to come away with 2 points let alone all 6. Pearson is riding his luck at the moment and praying nothing happens to Fryatt and Delldays says it's a bit early to be passing judgement. I would still have Pardew over Pearson and at the time still understood the need to let Pearson go - it's not as though he had us storming to safety and damn near took us down from the safety of 18th when he took over. His goalkeeper kept Carlisle in the football league with a goal in the 93rd minute in his other managerial appointment. Perhaps he is just a lucky manager for the time being and if Pardew left us Pearson still wouldn't be in my top 5 candidates to replace him. Are we going to have a thread everytime an ex-manager does well or has a bit of luck - if so lets balance it out shall we? Great impact Strachan had yesterday and oh so predictable. Gibson is going to regret dumping Southgate for a manager who left a two horse race when riding the thoroughbred with all the cash behind him.

Well I'm in Vienna? Where did I go wrong?

Much LOLness! No doubt one of your points is the complaint that there is not enough 'foul play' on the pitch like pushing from behind, although you probably dread some form of obstruction. BTW, my wife would like to see the return of the infamous Gary Lineker short but not the Peter Beardsley - leave that to people who love their pets.

Then it seems we need to do no more and I'm not sure what the issue is other than to formalise the process you mention above.

Waving or blaming? £12k pw and he expected us to gee him up?

I love satire.

I appreciate the sentiment but don't believe the club need to send a representative to every ex-players funeral and if we do there is a danger the role may get milked as alleged by Once Bitterne. My recommendation would be for Duncan to write an obiturary for inclusion in the next match day programme outlining the deceased's playing career at Saints and what they did after they left the club . Like many I am too young to remember Burnside and any other players of his era and before and to appreciate their contribution. The obiturary could serve as a nice marker of the player's passing and an opportunity to educate the younger fan base of some the clubs exploits pre 1976 or later, god forbid a more unexpected death occurs. Need to appreciate that some of our younger fans may have little knowledge of the club before the creation of the Premier league and as the fan base will always get younger this is a problem that will never go away. I hope whatever is decided it is done with a degree of reverence and dignity and we never repeat the toe-curling embarrassment of the farewell we provided Alan Ball. Banshee like screaming on microphones to 'rally the crowd' has no place at a memorial no matter how upbeat you want to make it. The crowd left alone can show their own appreciation as they see fit.

'He that wrestles with us strenghtens our nerves, and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper'

I don't think you understand the term fundamentalist and to live your ife by a moral christian code as you suggest would require the maintenance of a strict and unwavering belief not different from that more often related to Islam. In short if those in our society who believed in Christ and lived by a strict Christain fundamentalist code we may actually live in a better place or we could resemble the Gaza strip. To suggest Muslim fundamentalist as something that is intrinsicly bad is as wrong as suggesting that others cannot question the role of McMenemy. Its just the work of strict Saints fundamentalists and no better than anyone else for allowing their code to prevent them form injecting a little balance into their rigid beliefs.

Absolutely spot on. There is no way I would make a donation to either of these two sulkers as I would never make a contribution to a political party and their sponging and whinging MPs.

I didn't say it was impossible Wes and you have to judge the merits of their acheivement in the context of the era/environment they are working in. It is very difficult to make like for like judgements as oppose to assessing McMenemy against the managerial greats of his era but it is not impossible and if Pardew got us into the Premier League from such humble beginnings and within the agreed timescale I think in the modern era that would be some acheivement and outwiegh anything McMenemy achieved. Time will tell and hopefully prove me right.

NO Pardew won't overtake those greats because of their achievement's at the time. Nicholson won the double at Spurs at a time when the feat was almost unheard of and spoken of in hushed tones. Robson nearly won us a World Cup, Busby this country's first European cup and Shankley was a football god and you miss out Clough. Everything is relative and based on what McMenemy achieved and the platform he started with Pardew will pass him and not look back if he gets us into the Premier League. It's dificult to compare achievements in two eras that have seen such a sea change and all you can do is judge each performance in its on time and assess which is the greater acheivement. Time will tell.

At not getting wrapped up in over hyping the level of praise heaped on one individual. Last Saturday your legend preferred to watch Grimsby than Saints.

You may not agree with it, but ridiculous? A legend for winning an FA Cup that seems ridiculous and then deserting us just when it starts to get interesting?

One trophy? Is Redknapp a legend at Portsmouth or Ramos a legend at Spurs? What actually constitutes a managerial legend? Clough, Ferguson, Busby, Shankley, Paisley, Revie, Stein. McMenemy may have been our best manager but that doesn't make him a legend because he didn't achieve anywhere near the level of his peers. He was just our best manager - legend is far to often used out of context and IMO is an over used superlative to describe McMenemy.

I disgaree Nick. I think if AP achieves promotion to the Premier Leaque I think that will be on a par with anything McMenemy has acheived and many of his peers. Without huge financial backing it will be impossible for Saints to achieve a 2nd place in the league and even WGS's achievement of finishing 8th in 2003 is probably a greater achievement than McMenemy who achieved his goal on a much more level playing field where money wasn't the only motivator. There is an irony in there if you look for it. Great memories don't necessarily make legends and McMenemy's record of achievement relative to todays world is actually unspectacular and if Pardew continues as we hope then he will easily usurp McMenemy as the club's greatest manager and LM can jump on the next gravy train probably destined for Grimsby as that is who our 'legend' would prefer to watch for the sake of a free lunch and the price of a Saints ticket. Shame on you McMenemy - you don't deserve the reverence of this club's fanbase.