Nineteen Canteen

........read....my.......posts...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................btw.....................................................................................................it...................................................................................................seems....................................................................................................I.....................................................................................................have..................................................................................................been..................................................................................................blessed...............................................................................................with...................................................................................................an......................................................................................................attack..............................................................................................of........................................................................................................angry..............................................................................................punctuation...........................................................................................I.....................................................................................................should..................................................................................................feel..................................................................................................sorry....................................................................................................for....................................................................................................you....................................................................................................but???????????????????????????????????

Very good but not before the cashreserves and available funding had been run dry just 6 months after Crouch was telling us no players would need to be released because of financial constraints. I tell you there is a best seller to be written based on the last 5 years - a kind of 'The Damned Saints' sort of thing but more original. May need a few collaborators though all in the interest of balance.

Good decision to preserve the illusion. Coast to coast and around? Interesting journey.

Agreed but not great traits for those in charge of running the club especially when they choose to risk the club's reserves as a result of failing to deliver promised investment.

Wes I agree with complete sincerity to your comments in this post. The problem I have is that many focus solely on Lowe as the scapegoat of choice and ignore the roles of the others and that is hardly balanced (are my posts as unreasoned, insulting and unhinged as the hard core anti-loweites and internet thugs?) and hence the positions I choose to adopt. We were doomed at the start of last season regardless of who was chairman or manager but I genuinely believe that Lowe's hard-nosed approach got us nearer to survival than fan-friendly rhetoric about promised takeovers or throwing money at a problem without an obvious resolution other than a stay of execution. I know you won't agree with my last point and I know and understand your opinion that had we stuck with Pearson... I think we just need to disagree on certain aspects of the past but agree this new chapter is long overdue and most welcome. It's just a pity there has been so much bad blood spilled along the way.

Like the alternatives you are nothing but a dreamer and a fantastist even when the hope runs out.

Agreed and a manager who steadfastly refused to evolve his management tactics and style based on experience. I remember a classic interview on Solent he gave after an abject display by Saints made worse by the usual bizarre team selections and substitutions and when quizzed about this he clearly got ruffled and replied with the classic quote (paraphrased) 'I have been a successful manager for 16 years and I see no point in changing my methods now' Strachan will be offered the Scotland manager's job next and I don't think he will set the world alight either. The international manager's job is a true test as you have to manage with the resources at your disposal and deal with club conflicts and early retirements to name but a few of the many issues. Strachan IMO isn't up to it.

Quite - now lets build a wall and start 50 years of cold war. I guess I'll be driving a Trabant for a while.

I can understand why you would think that although personally I agree with Verbal's take on reality on this occassion. Well it's not even a take it is just the reality and no doubt given some of your previous 'views from the top' Elvis is on the moon.

Factually incorrect not Darren's mum but Daren Wheeler and in any event none of the comments about them I made were unsolicited and in response to their words and actions either on this forum or in the media.

What state of mind would that be Steve Godwin? Care to elaborate on such a smug comment? If so please be factual and aware that time and medical expertise can thankfully cure many medical problems regardless of their nature or origin. I'm not aware we have met or conversed about my health at any time let alone recently so please share with us all your assessment of my 'state of mind' your reasons and your source for such personal information you seem to be alluding you have access to.

I agree with your last point Wes but it was a very uncomfortable summer and if we could have avoided it then that would still have been preferable especially for all those smaller businesses who have suffered the consequences. I still believe it was broke before Lowe's return and the slip to the edge of oblivion was instigated by Wilde ablely supported by the likes of Crouch and Burley to name but a few. We agreed the only feasiable option was for the 3 monkeys to work together but for all theories that have been debated that was not possible for whatever reason. I firmly believe that Lowe did buy us some time with his hard nosed approach but with fans acting like ship rats he was unable to deliver on the Barclays plan for their continued support. Good managers don't become bad overnight - Alan Pardew being a case in point and perhaps the same applies to chairmen as Lowe did deliver undoubted success for us relative to the new world of football we now operate in with a top half finish in the Premiership that was a significant achievement and FA cup final appearance. The lack of balance to the views of the closet thugs who choose to ridicule reality or whip up some personal agenda against me and not to mention some pathetic Nazi rhetoric does speak volumes about their reasoning or lack of it. As you have wisely said in the past to ridicule or insult an individual in an unsolicited fashion because of their views surrenders the higher ground to them and makes their own views if any obsolete. In hindsight I am grateful, very grateful for what administration has delivered but many have still not rewarded Mr Liebherr with their returning loyalty and taking everything into consideration I was hoping for an average home gate of c.20k. You may be the exception to the rule although I didn't and still don't agree with the action you took because like others you ran the risk of moving on and the need to support the club wanes. Lowe has been ousted and we have a debt free club with a bright future so where is everyone? Begs the question if Lowe was actually the issue as attendances declined in 2006/07 and 2007/08 during his absence. In any event regardless of our historical views we are united in the belief we have a club and a future worthy of our support and the 'charlatans' are gone and forgotten but not by some who continue to raise mindless threads about Lowe being eradicated or otherwise and then get all hissy when they are reminded about other relevant takes on history.

Probably why he shot himself.

I saw that on SSN earlier and had the same thoughts. Certainly a better option to partner Lambert than the rest and likely to get plenty of games rather than going to a championship side as cover for their first choice strikers.

Correct - still it would be nice to win something even if it's best rescue under £20m as oppose to a win in League 1.

LOL - kind of sum's up my view on the matter. Candidates for nominees must be a bit thin on the ground unless they had an award for letting companies go bust

Felt a bit annoyed - Nick surely that must be an understatement. It's scandalous to say the least that the Americans should seek profit or cover of costs from an such an atrocity. The western world was attacked because of our belief systems and no doubt capitalism is at the heart of some of the hatred and yet the Americans are turning it into way of making money or offsetting costs is a disgrace. Shameful, truly shameful.

I agree, I like many others have been a lucky tourist to be allowed out on the roof of the WTC when the conditions permitted and walking on those gangways I can assure you there is nothing that would drive me to leap off that building but then again I can't begin to imagine the carnage after those planes hit.

I agree with what you have said and perhaps brainwashed as opposed to mindless would be more appropriate but i have no doubt that those behind the kamikaze pilots are extremely intelligent, dangerous and subversive individuals but their acts still come across as mindless to kill so many innocent people in one act and to prove what? Their belief systems our better than those of the western world? All they do for me is to prove that religion is the root of all evil and it's a pity in the 21st century we can't all adopt agnosticism as the desire for man to worship some form of an invisible god throughout time has proven to be nothing but disappointment and unfounded in it's effectiveness.

Bet you funded him during the good times and the real slide to the edge of oblivion started with Wilde and the rest of the banner wavers. Lowe's biggest mistake was returning thinking he could rescue a club in terminal decline in hindsight I would have preferred watching Crouch trying to oil his way out of the mess he helped to set in motion. Trouble is Lowe was the only credible alternative to try and save the club despite an obvious terminal diagnosis but the situation coupled with attitude of 'fans' like yourself he had failed before he even started. You should upgrade your membership if your parents can sign off your bank account application but that depends on you having the right 'ammount' of funds.

True but neither did he deface it by drawing some pointy ears and horned rimmed spectacles on McMenemy before offering it to him for old times sake.

It seems Begbies Traynor have been nominated for the 'Business Rescue of the Year award' for firms with a turnover under £20m. See the attached link. http://www.insolvencyandrescueawards.co.uk/nominations/shortlist.php A worthy nominee and deserving of recognition for reaching the pinnacle in their industry?

Premiership football is not a given for a club of our size and Lowe had us punching above our weight. I have sat in the same seat since our move to SMS and have seen the 'big game' fans come and go many of which are bordering on the corporate type of fan with an embarrassing lack of knowledge about the team let alone the game. Then we have all those who attend the big games since our relegation and always tell you they usually sit somewhere else which is probably true but it isn't in SMS on usual match days. If fan's deserted the club over Lowe's mismanagement then I guess Mr Liebherr will be somewhat patient before investing anymore money in a business with such a fickle customer base. You are deluded if you think we are a big club because we have been bought by a billionaire and one with close family ties to the docks. Do you think Andrew Oldknow may have cottoned on to the opportunity and made the approach or do you think Mr Liebherr sat in his office in Switzerland and made the decision to invest in a fading football club? If we are a big club then QPR must be the next Real Madrid or is it something to do with some prime West London real estate? I don't mind if people refer to my posts as toilet especially those who are resepcted by others and with a credible posting history but it's offensive coming from a 3 posts a day person with the logic of an angst ridden uneducated teenager. Leave the forum? Why don't you I'm sure your input will be missed.

I know Toomer but you said that it was correct 15,000 fans stayed away because of Lowe and that is open to debate. A debate you started with your unsubstantiated 'correct' response. I have no desire to revisit old ground but you reignited the issue.

I think Lowe had a strength of character somewhat above the level needed to resort to such a petty act and IMO always acted in a proud way with regard to his association with SFC. Unfortunately, the type of individual who acts in this manner are ignorant and selfish and not happy unless they feel things are done to solely please them or they are attention seeking and doing what they think the populace would like them to do as oppose to acting how they would like their own property to be treated. Lowe had no regard for our history? I don't know about that but he was clearly dedicated to our future as was Crouch and Wilde but they all made their mistakes along with the 15,000 who were equally quick to desert the cause. People will always slag me off for being a Lowe luvvie and it doesn't bother me as he was the best out of those available at the time but I find it amusing that threads are started with him as the subject of debate having moved on so far. Are poeple still using him as an apology not to attend games and under the guise of destroying our club? It is those apologists who I will always defend Lowe against because those spolit idiots are as equally culpable for our drop to L1 as anyone else and a failure to accept that our relegation from the Premiership was an increasingly likely occupational hazard even though Lowe IMO allowed his managerial appointments to take on a somewhat Crouchesque fashion as oppose to the way he appointed Strachan. Mistakes happen but people cannot live and learn or ignore them altogether when heinous mistakes are commited with openess and unashamed candour by their god. Lowe is a scapegoat and a chairman who delivered a cup final and a top 10 in a heavily moneyed Premiership can't be all bad. There is the rub - no dissenters then but only when the football rollercoaster dipped for the club did the wolves start howling and the mistake was that many listened and like they accuse Lowe have never acknowledged they got it wrong. So I will always defend Lowe not because he got it right all the time but because of the double standards of those against him.