Nineteen Canteen

It wasn't a threat and only the ignorant would have seen it that way, more an invitation.

All the above posts produce true conclusions but over the past 5 years whose support has been eroded the most? The current stats only tell half the story as regards average levels of support and how that average has been maintained over the past 5 years or more. We are behind Leeds and Norwich and tbh we are well behind them and with regards to Norwich that is unacceptable IMO. As for Leeds they are a far bigger club and if god forbid we are still in this league for the same length of time as them then do you feel our average will be as 'good'? We have a very loyal fan base of which I am very proud but not much to crow about when it comes down to assessing our level of support I think that awards goes to Norwich and Derby and both in the bottom reaches of our peer group.

Um Pahars, unlikely to be appearing on Mock the Week anytime soon. You're about as funny as undesirable middle-aged men who holiday on a regular basis in Thailand. Chill out Steve only another 48 weeks until your next experience. In the meantime if you continue to cast asperions on me just because you don't agree with my opinions then expect a little back. Time to play with the big boys.

Why don't you go to the Solent fans forum and ask them yourself but make it relevant as it seems to me from not much, Pardew and Cortese are building something that is likely to better Charlton's start next season. Ok ask why are Saints fans so unsupportive of their current team considering impatience breeds nervousness and manifests itself in their teams of the recent past as a lack of confidence?

That maybe so, but today I think we can see it as a point gained. I was out of radio range today and can't comment on the game as I wasn't able to tune in. However, by all accounts we played very well although slightly concerned they had two disallowed goals second half. Onward and upward.

Or he didn't check his facts very diligently, who knows but to the complacent / lazy tag do we add cynical and if it was just a way of beefing up the content of the book why do so by admitting an attempted fraud. Is this an auto-biograghy or a work of fiction based on real events like the Damned United. Hopefully it will remove the need for Police to probe any further but begs the question why run the risk of ruining your his major asset his public persona / character by inventing or pretending to be involved in betting scams. Doesn't make sense especially as the books are not exactly flying off the shelves. Nonetheless Trousers a good call but I still would like to know why he made it up beyond the obvious answer - sales. Things don't stack up Mr Conspiracy Theory and we both know it.

I agree with your views about some of the poorly supported teams in the Premiership and Wigan and Pompey are the worse offenders but Birmingham with their catchment area is probably a bigger disgrace. However, I don't see us being a mid table Premiership side within 5 years as it will take 2 to get out of this league then another 2 to get out of the CCC if we maintain realistic ambitions and then we could yo-yo like almost everyone else has for a few years before we consolidate as Fulham and Wigan have or Portsmouth had. 6-10 years before we are classed as a mid-tier premier league club IMO unless Mr Liebherr has a change of heart about his level of investment.

Self-confessed lunatic? Mr Godwin can you please advise me where I have ever confessed to being a 'lunatic'. What would you call people suffering from other medical conditons or perhaps a disabled person? You really need to reign in the personal insults because you are doing far more damage to your tenuous reputation than mine. Considering the amount of insults I get I don't often report them but when you post lies and vile abuse suggesting that someone who has suffered from one of a vast array of mental type illnesses equates to a lunatic then you are far sicker and grossly ill-informed than most.

Laughable comment and if it went to court do you think a judge would not notice a case of vindictive police harrassment or the defence lawyers destroy the crown'e defence because the arresting officer was a Portsmouth fan and over eager to stitch MLT up. I just hope you are not being serious - a neutral force!!!!!!! Justice doesn't have a colour.

Superb

And you and Wes telling me it could have been any different from your position of inside knowledge. Would it not be a little less arrogant to assume you are no less right than myself and in the absence of facts from Lowe or those closely connected to him all opinions have relevance whether you personally agree with them or not. Shouty text and ganging up on individuals by cyber bullying or trying to rubbish them personally doesn't make your opinions have any more creedance than mine. In fact Tame if I came on here and said that our Stadium was in Britannia Road you would try to argue it was off Northam Road. Correction you would latch on to the first person who came on and said - not strictly true. You are always the passenger.

Thank you for clarifying it. Have you got a similar pic of MLT?

May as well close down the Old Bailey. NC 1:1

Ah an apt quote for the stressed out married man in his forties.

Personally Trousers I see this as a major bonus and it means I won't have to remove half a dried football pitch from the back of my car every weekend as other parents are seemingly always unavailable because of Horse Riding or Ballet or Tennis. There are times I wish I had a daughter they make great excuses. Going to take 6 years though so if they are still playing no doubt my services will not be required and they can tear ar5e to the game in a souped up N reg Corsa from another era.

The 1990's is not another era or generation so we need to be careful of passing this off as if it was something that occured before many of us were born or still in short trousers. It is also no defence to pass this off as ok because everyone else was allegedly doing it - doesn't make it right. Morally it was wrong and with respect to your fans and employers it was dismissive and arrogant behaviour at best. MLT will not be a victim of his own honesty he will IMO be a victim of his own stupidity. I agree it doesn't make MLT worse than any other player allegedly involved in this activity and like those other players whoever they are I will respect them and him a lot less along with the fans of the other countless clubs you allege are involved. MLT may have been poorly paid relative to his peers but £200k + pa is far from a level you may need to stoop to scamming bookies and tarnishing your reputation IMO. Unfortunately, IMO it smacks of greed, ego and disrespect for your sport and your fans.

Quick? I have been questioning MLT's ability/motives since he first put his name to Pinnacle. Pinnacle and his book have just provided the platform for discussion. Likewise I don't remember any negative discussion about Lowe around May 2003 only the events after that gave you a platform to discuss his ability/motives. Surprising how easy it is to ignore the faults of others don't you think?

I appreciate your view Wes and concede that the term negative may be overstating the point with regard to administration but it was hardly positive and the Fialka saga was acutely embarrasing and we should not forget who was endorsing it at the time. However, the news about MLT is nothing other than negative and something we could all do without. We are all different and I am pleased it doesn't diminish your memories but for me I'm afraid it does and you can't help wondering what might have been if he had run around a little harder when he didn't have a bet riding on the outcome of his actions. It's difficult for me to divorce an individuals ability from their moral code and in any event would always rate the latter over the former. I won't stop marvelling at what MLT did for us although not with the same complete reverence but that is just my personal perspective as oppose to yours.

It's called abusing your position to make a personal gain no matter how small the incident. In the city it's called Insider Trading and perhaps we should not forget where Spread Betting originated from. You can't compare the past with present and your analogy is wrong on so many levels. Even today we have the Prime Minister apologising for the shameful treatment this country dished out to one of its greatest heros during World War II simply because he was a homosexual. It wouldn't be right today and despite the laws at the time doesn't mean his treatment was right 70 years ago. The 1990's is hardly a generation ago and MLT had he looked after his fitness would be barely out of his boots. He needs to be made accountable for his comments.

Your words not mine but given your comments I would suggest it's just the one rung above yours.

That maybe so but what was the alternatives at the time? Lovable and malleable (will the fans love me) Crouch? Wilde was a spent force amd unless the 3 buried the hatchet and agreed to work together Lowe's impenetrable and hard nosed approach was always the best of bad bunch. Bit like going into Greggs for a late lunch and chosing a sandwich from the remains of the earlier feeding frenzy, you've got to eat but you don't fancy anything on offer. I don't deny he made mistakes but a tight fiscal policy wasn't one of them and the youth policy was his only viable option and bringing in the Dutch gave it initially an air of feasibility of doing something different to survive against the other also-rans in the league. Problem is of course was that JP was not up to the job and that Wotte could have done it on his own and I wish I knew the facts and Lowe's reasoning behind those appointments. The away victory over Reading was a false dawn and bought JP sometime he didn't really have IMO. What is undeniable that after all the bad blood we are now building some foundations on a base of concrete and not quick sand but the revenues this club generates from it's fanbase will dictate it's long term ambitions as was the case this time last year albeit the ambitions now are not just about survival. That is a worry as investment won't come unless we help to prove investment is worthwhile and crowds of 17,000 are not going to cut it.

TBH, I am ambivalent about it and for every example that shows us in a good light you can find examples that show us in a poor light namely Derby, Norwich and Leeds and given how long the latter have been in the doldrums their support is remarkable. The problem Wigan, Burnley and Fulham have is they are all in close proximity to hotbeds of football and and the former especially a fan base split by a greater love of Rugby League as may be the case with Hull. Apart from Pompey where is our challenge to watch professional football. My guess is if we were currently going through what Pompey fans are enduring then our fanbase would be eroded and lets not forget even a desperate call to arms post administration did not achieve an all to late capacity crowd for the Charlton game falling short by c.5,000. To put that into context we had a sell out for the Man U game and a suspected thumping and the embarrassing acceptance of their taunts - you'll only here to see United. Then there was the sell out game v Sheff Utd where we we lucky to avoid the drop a year earlier. Makes you question the motives of some 'fans' as far as I am concerned. I'm not proud of our support but proud of the loyalty shown by those fans who consistently turn up to support the team. No doubt as we start to enjoy some success over the next few years the plastics and their excuses will return frightened they may miss out on something but without any acknowledgement to those who have kept this club going. Perhaps we should reduce the capacity and keep them from returning and reduce our costs in the process.

Very well put.

Derry, I think you have hit the nail on the head. It's easy to admit your mistakes or 'crimes' when you haven't profited from them and can do so in a self-deprecating way, quite another when you have coined in a few quid. No doubt the bookmakers who lost a lot of money on these bets and probably noted some supicious but difficult to prove betting patterns have raised the complaint to the police now they have a professional admission. My guess is that the spread betting firms will provide details of all their suspicious or unusual betting patterns and ask for these to now be taken into consideration. MLT had choices what to include or exclude from his book and choose how he wanted to be reflected personally. He chose to come across as the lovable self deprecating maverick blessed with genius and a 'I'm doing it my way' approach. Whether he achieved that is up for debate but no doubt IMO he chose to leave out stuff that may have not reflected him in the light he wanted and can anyone say based on this admission that he was party to successful scams before his decision not to get involved with spread betting again? IMO, there has to be an element of doubt at the moment and one that the police will IMO want to question MLT about. In any event we should accept that crimes can be committed regardless of a successful outcome for those committing them. Failure does not equal not guilty. I found MLT's book tedious and ungenuine and have yet to read any autobiography that the author felt it worthwhile to include 40 pages of plaudits from a load of unknown names. I have not been able to get by the rather fatuous and ambiguous title of the book because who was he supposed to be 'taking le tiss' from? Judging by his comments, that in this incident he never ran so hard in a game, I can't get away from the fact he was taking it from himself and more importantly us fans who so revered him during his playing career. If he did this to increase book sales then as at 31st August he was 9th in the Hard Back Non-fiction sales with c1,920 sales and it will be interesting to see how this news has impacted his initial and somewhat disappointing sales. Under 2,000 sales doesn't even represent 20% of SFC Season Ticket holders. Assessing those sales against the club's wider fanbase and his alleged status with Soccer Saturday fans and all those interested in football I think he has over-estimated his popularity and under played the seriousness of his admission. MLT Le God? More like fallen angel and after everything this club has been through recently the last thing we needed was more negative press from an ill-advised ex-player still not learning and instead choosing to do it his way. These are just my opinions of course but for me MLT has inescapably tainted my memories of his playing days with this book and his role in Pinnacle and has left me questioning who is the real MLT behind what was his undoubted genius.

Richmond all your points I had already addressed. Spyinthesky - the letter was an odd decision but given the audience perhaps he felt it was necessary. In any event if Lowe's act was a man short of a marble what was Crouch's hissy fit all about or McMenemy taking his wife to fight his battles allegedly. Wes, all very true but it would still make a great book and TV drama. Pity Leonard Rossiter is no longer with us as in his prime he would have made a great Crouch. Michael Wilde played by James Bolam, Rupert Lowe played by Jeremy Irons, Matt Le Tissier played by Hugh Grant (impossibly lovely apart from the odd faux pas), Nigel Pearson played by Vinnie Jones, Tony Lyman played by Christopher Biggins and Michael Fialka played by Sacha Baron Cohen - to name just a few. I suppose Crouch, Trant and the rest of his board could be played by The Ant Hill mMb from the Wacky Races and McMenemy by a villianous Alan Rickman or a bombastic Brian Blessed.