Nineteen Canteen

One Papa doesn't make a winter, he didn't show us that much on Saturday that our entire season depended on him alone, but it is disappointing nonetheless.

In that case lets hope we don't play Saganowski and perhaps give Lallana a chance to shine in 'the hole' in a 4 4 1 1 formation. We could always dream that our resident international may get farmed out and we get a couple of 'robust' and pacey players in his absence.

As oppose to the wonderful works of the Oxford University Press that adorn our bookshelves. There was life before Google I assume even for you. You are clearly a most learned pedant but one who still cannot deflect a valid opinion through a 'smarty pants' attempt to point out the minutiae of a poster's grammatical misdemeanours. 'Some football fans prefer to live in a world of suspended belief. It's like watching a movie and believing for 90 minutes that the man in the red pants and cape can actually fly'

'Mit der Dummheit kampfen Gotter selbst vergebens' IMO we are unfortunate to be children of 2 lesser gods and in light of everything I have learned on these forums and listed and read in the media they didn't deserve the promotion from kings. The one man who was been rightly feted by the club has the statue outside to prove it (eventually) and a mere mortal in comparison. Ted Bates reminds me of a line from Henry V and perhaps we can consider we are talking about playing/managing careers as oppose to war although the analogy is a strong one. 'In peace there's nothing so becomes a man As modest stillness and humility' McMenemy and Le Tissier, gods? I don't think so.

Hardly an acquital though is it based for example on lack of evidence, seems to me its just that the police don't have the resource in light of more pressing needs and you can appreciate that. IMO there must have been some cause of an investgation as why did teh Police consider worth going to the CPS in the first place? The reasonable questions I have been asking all along remain unanswered and MLT has badly damaged or at least called into question his integrity and judgement. All this of course following on from Pinnacle and the many unanswered questions regards alleged time wasting whilst not forgetting his bizzare parameters for recruiting a new manager - no one who is not an ex-Saint need apply - plain lazy or box office potential? You decide. Looks like we are somewhat unsatisfactorily done here and unless he provides a full and frank explanation now the case has been dropped then I sincerely hope he is not offered any role, honoury or otherwise at the club. Anyone want to buy a pristine copy of his book or do you prefer to wait to find out if it's fact or fiction? For a small consideration + P&P I will happily send it to you, I 'll sign it if you like. Matt Le Tissier Le God? I'm afraid at the moment I am somewhat agnostic and expect to remain that way as he will IMO keep his counsel and arrogantly and dismissively continue to trade off that unblemished reputation. A great shame but lots to look forward to even if we have a recent past worth forgetting.

No worse than some of our own in my experience. Often I have embarrasingly come away from games and had to ask my son what certain words mean't.

LOL - Is that why his blogg and opinions have been removed from Sky's website? Perhaps that's because of another scam we've yet to find out about.

By the length of his question he certainly liked the sound of his own voice so it doesn't surprise me. What did surprise as already mentioned was the quality of the questions that were of a level you could easily guess how the panel were going to respond. All I came away with was a reinforcement that we have a board and a manager of excellent pedigree and quality and that Liebherr sees this as an investment opportunity and is clearly not going to throw money at a club that thanks to his initial investement is debt free. Cortese's account of the timeline of their involvement should make the Administrators and Pinnacle hang their head in same but we already knew that. Interesting to hear Pardew's take on his captain but I sense there is still some kind of adjustment period going on as Kelvin sounded authoriative rather than relaxed in his role (reading between the lines) which is a good thing and I would prefer a professional team atmosphere as oppose to a relaxed and too genial one. The questions to Pardew about challenging for the play offs this season or would he be happy with a DoF were a waste of airtime and did those who ask seriously expect him to say no? As it was his responses were absolutely out of the top draw and if anyone left the room or turned off the radio thinking anything other than that our club is being run by an excellent team who are building for success as oppose to buying it then they wasted their time tuning in or attending. My biggest fear in all this is that the whole plan can be undermined by a fickle and vocal minority in our fan base who expect us to to be the next Chelsea or Man City or stump up more modest amounts to gamble on a play off place. Hopefully, the impatient minority and quick to protest will learn from our past mistakes and that any rebuilding process requires patience and a warchest and that is where those strong attendances will come in provided they are not influenced by the hot headed minority. Asking for 30p off a pint of Guinness is ridiculous because if money is that tight your priorities are wrong in the first place. I hope the club take on board the question about provision of disabled transport to away games and provide one coach with facilities for the disabled. However, despite the question being vaild I have to question if this was the right forum to raise it in and surely a call or email to the club would have sorted this out instead of what appeared to me an attempt to embarrass the club and it's new owners over a poor oversight. Perhaps the questioner would have been better off asking if the club would benefit from organising a fan's focus group to meet on a 6 monthly basis and put forward issues or suggestions to help the new board settle in and focus on the big picture whilst the group could help them focus on the little things that are easily overlooked. The question I asked but never got aired was will the club recognise or acknowledge the non elected supporters associations such as SISA or the now defunct (given it's original remit) The Saints Trust and is it time for fans association to be run with strong links to the club but independent in its formation and agenda but with input for discussion a two way process. I am sure they can provide a small office at SMS to run such an association and it would be very beneficial to all to have one unified and more professionally managed association with no dis-respect to the Saints Trust who have come closest IMO to fulfilling that brief in the past. This is not a request for a fan on the board and other such nonsense in fact it links in now with my thoughts more as having a voluntary focus group for issues such as the disabled facilities on away coaches.

Didn't Matt Carpenter from Leicester and his life story ask tonights longest question? At one stage I thought he was going to start listing all the away games he goes to or his favoured route for travelling from Leicester to SMS for home matches. 5 minutes constructing a question when all he wanted to know if pardew still considered the play offs a realistic target!!! Most realistic fans could have given him the answer on this forum. Thanks Matt - were you aware it was only 60 minutes long or did you feel you needed special treatment for travelling from Leicester? If you state you are a seson ticket holder or you are with some unelected or now defunct supporters group does it make your questions more important? Who gives a toss about a pint of Guinness? If you can afford the £26 for a ticket 30p off a pint isn't going to make much difference is it!

Ditto but to be fair to Pardew he has been a very polished communicator form the word go.

Very funny and that is very much what I meant metaphorically speaking. Still my main concern was that the beans weren't runners but of course they were and we ended up with a half-baked bean called Fialka.

IMO all Crouch's actions have suggested he covet's a seat on the board above anything else and perhaps it is no surprise his company have I believe sponsored Eastliegh this year. Crouch's money definitely saved us but was it donated freely with that in mind or because of attached promises from the bid that he thought would win the race? I think your summary on McMenemy is probably the best epitaph I have read to what will probably be his final involvement with the club unless he can accept change in a supportive way.

Thanks Morph. They are observations and well received but lets not embellish them with your assumptions dressed as facts of him being an invited guest of Mr Liebherr.

Done to death ES but no satisfactory answers and time and silence should allow for the carpet to be tacked down to the floor again with everything neatly swept and unanswered under it. I agree with Weston that MLT is keeping his own counsel over the betting scam but IMO that is not the best action and is disrespectful to all those who have worshipped him down the years and bought his book in good faith on the premise they were going to read about his life and career. Some of it may now be a work of fiction or we are told the hardest he ever ran for the club was to minimise his potential losses because he was abusing his position as a player of our club. He can't win either way as Weston suggested but avoidance is not an option either. The Pinnacle thing is an unanswered side issue tbh as he has answered questions in the media but luckily for him he chose Simon Mayo as the interviewer and not Nicky Campbell or someone even more challenging. Thank god for Mr Liebherr and his directors and an exciting future. However, that future was put under serious threat by Pinnacle's antics and only now it seems are we beginning to catch up with the other teams in the league. MLT endorsed the bid giving it huge creedance and with less due diligence IMO than a housewife buying her weekly fruit and veg. MLT's book and the mystery around the scam has exacerbated his Pinnacle role and for someone with god like status, IMO he has treated his worshipers in a rather shabby and unprofessional way. MLT may or may not have a future role at this club so I think before his next standing ovation at SMS he should account publicly to his adoring fans for his actions. A frank and honest account and not the straight batted nonsense replies he gave to the 'probing' Pinnacle questions that you or I could have scripted on his behalf.

John Barnes and Jason Macateer should be warning enough and having heard McManaman insightful punditry then its no, no and a third tier no. How does Morph know he was an invited guest anyway? Thought Morph and his bosses were history having flattered to deceive and the realisation you don't actually get anything for nothing these days not even the bare bones of a football club.

MOG what would your guess be? I also think Nick made a valid point about what would have happened if LM had become Stokoe Mk II. My guess is he would have stayed up north but he came back and cashed in instead of using his new ownership rights to help mould and shape the club. At least he is one of us I guess and loved giving an opinion without the worry of accountability and where is he now, now he is asked to pay for his seat? Perhaps not one of us afterall, I guess.

Very interesting and for those who believe Lowe in his second spell in charge took us down again and delivered us into administration this will perhaps prove that the perilious state of our finances did not happen duirng last season, although the falls in revenue would not have helped but we were a dead man walking from May 2008. Lowe was culpable but so were many others and as I have said before if we look for scapegoats the lessons of the past 4 years won't be learned. Meanwhile, why is MLT adopting a vow of silence?

Very true but the world of corporate finance and the city in general is an incestous place IMO and it's always been a case of it's who you know not what you know. It's why most financial institutions have 'Network Management' or other such named departments. It would be nice to know the thinking but that process was far more transparent than the machinations of Pinnacle and the real bone of contention on this thread the MLT betting scam did he or didn't he try to rip off the spread firms and in any event lets have a full and frank apology and explanation. It would be nice to know that the time he ran his hardest during a game was for the good of his club and it's fans not for those in a betting scam he was involved with but perhaps that's just me being picky.

In general I agree with your view on Saganowski and your assessment can easily be applied to all the games he has played in this season and most of last. In fact most since his 10 goal haul in his first season with us on loan since when he has barely flattered to deceive. It's Rudi Skacel mark II. However, to be fair there was more signs of industry from him on Saturday and I think he actually gave the impression (for a change) he wanted to be out there but like you say if he is still blowing out through his arse and is either past it or doesn't consider us or his career important enough to work harder in training. Seems to me we have a player who believes he is an International but unable to perform in the 3rd tier of English Football. Trouble is how do we get rid of him and off the books as I am sure we could get two quality players in on his wages.

Meanwhile, has MLT been suspended from Soccer Saturday or chosen to step down until this 'betting scam' issue has blown over or simply absent due to illness or on holiday? A quick look around other club's fans forums and it is being debated and the general view is that 2nd to Stelling he is the most popular person on the show or the person whose views are seemingly most respected. That said he probably played for the least hated club of those on the show and Thompson is naturally slated by both City and Utd fans and the Spurs fans are not exactly complimentary about Merson and Nicholas. So given he seems to have some viewer support and presumably doesn't want to insult his loyal Saints fans why has he resisted the chance to comment? Is the betting scam story true and if so is it being investigated by the authorities and in hindsight does he still consider it amusing or part of 'Taking Le Tiss'? If the story is a lie to boost book sales why did he consider that necessary and drag his name and the club's through the mire at a time when it is least needed, post adminstration and the embarrasment caused by his good mate Lynam and the enigmatic Michael Fialka and endorsed by either an alleged fraudster or liar, or IMO a lazy fool. So MLT answers please as this native is getting restless and having purchased your book before I read it in full I need to know if it's a work of fiction or non-fiction and a detailed explanation on which it is. Whilst, you are at it I, and I am sure many others, would like to hear the full story, warts and all behind Pinnacle and why you backed it so confidently right up until the 11th hour and past the Fialka unvieling? IMO and using business terms I think you have leveraged your past reputation and faith of your fans to the hilt and it's time to repay a little interest before your stock plummets.

Very reasonable and no cause for laughter and abuse from me. I also agree with your view of Saganowski's performance yesterday which makes me wonder if Gemmel was at the game. He gave me the impression he was at least trying for a change but things did not come for him and it looked like a hopless cause chasing hopeless causes and his lack of pace is really telling.

Have our fans been any different at times of boardroom unrest? We have always had a healthy away support especially for the nearer games but can we say our home support didn't drop off? We remain a far better supported team but we suffered from the problem with deserting rats especially at home so hypocritcal to gloat IMO.

I use to and still do on evening matches but for quite a while it's been very easy to travel up and down the Avenue or down and up to be more accurate. If the crowds continue to rise then happy to take the diversion.

SS excellent analysis and wouldn't disagree with anything you have said. Saganowski was chasing shadows but at least he tried more than he usualy does but it's a substitue role for him if that as far as I am concerned. If Papa doesn't work out I think i would rather have Patterson up front than Saga. As for Lallana then RM is the only place we can play him but right or left I don't think he has any understanding with the relevant full backs and the last thing we need this season are enigmas in the team. We need a midfield as drilled as our back 4 and he doesn't fit the remit their so we are left with him to play up front and Papa and Lambert you would hope will be our first choice pairing. Mills on teh left and if McLaggon is ready then he should be on the right but Lallan lacks teh discipline to play in central midfield unless we go the diamond route and he plays an attacking role but is he teh type of playing you change the formation of teh team for? Not IMO but like you say football is about opinions and Lallana for me at the moment is not one of my favourites.