SaintJackoInHurworth

I'm pleased Armstrong gets to start even though he has not yet delivered for Saints. A little worried by the selection of Diallo. I'm most excited by the inclusion of Dibling on the bench. Also pleased that Stu Armstrong starts. Oh - and great to see McCarthy back on the bench.

I haven't contributed on this forum for a while and must admit I get frustrated with the continual bickering. Fwiw, while MLG may get a bit pedantic and is easily drawn into arguments with certain others, he also makes some good points and it is frustrating that those who argue with him are as argumentative as he is. Is there any chance the lot of you can just calm it down a bit and try to have respectful debate without resorting to the slanging matches? And so, getting back to the topics at hand... Personally I have mixed feelings about Alli for many of the reasons that others have shared: At his best he was a key part of the England side - if we could sign him and he could rediscover that form that would be great. He would not be the same type of player as Redmond, Djenepo or Elyonoussi - they are much more the sort of player to dribble past players, whereas his skills at their best are much more similar to those of Stuart Armstrong - positioning, timing, passing, forward momentum, etc. - though, of course, there are some overlaps. There are big questions about whether he can rediscover his form. He could block the development of players like Smallbone and others. If he would accept the option of signing for us after a loan it would have to be on the basis of him taking a considerable cut in wages. I agree that Carvalho would be a more likely signing - whether he would be a better signing in the short or long run remains to be seen. Nevertheless, with West Ham and Liverpool being linked I also doubt he will come to Saints. I think it is more likely that if we make any signing this January they will be similar to the signings of Livramento and Small in the summer and/or signings like the one that is anticipated for Will Armitage from Cheltenham.

A lot of people seem to be very much glass half-full here, especially in relation to Lyanco. I think he may turn out to be better than some of you fear. I also think that suggestions that he will not be used in defensive midfield may be incorrect. From what I saw on the videos he looked very much like a player who would fit well in that position fulfilling a similar role to Romeu. Since we have not signed anyone else to fulfil that role, I think Lyanco may well have to be the one who covers for Romeu if he is injured. However, I also think that he could produce decent competition for Salisu in the left hand central defensive role and I would not be too surprised if he even manages to jump ahead of Salisu in the pecking order - at least for some games. We now have a squad with at least two players (and in some cases more) in every position plus several youngsters who also have the potential to begin to challenge for a place in the first team. We can be confident that this season we will not be seeing Saints struggling to put together a side with enough cover in every position.

If we are seeking to sign a fifth defensive misfielder, then I'm surprised that we haven't made a move for a player like Claudio Gomes from Man City, though I don't know whether he is more of a Romeu-type DM or a JWP-type DM. I think our shortage is cover for Romeu rather than cover for JWP. As I see it our defensive midfield options look like this: Traditional UK Number 4 (in Germany a number 6) - defensive holding midfielder Romeu More attack-minded or box-to-box style DM - traditionally a number 7 or 8 in the UK JWP Diallo Smallbone While JWP or Diallo can switch into the number 4 (6) position, that is not their greatest strength. Nevertheless, I do wonder if there is a player in the academy of one of the big clubs who could be given a chance at Saints in that position, in the same way that Livramento and Small have been given the opportunity to challenge at full back.

So, for all the talk and rumours, we didn't sign any of these: Nat Phillips Boubakar Kouyate Flavius Daniliuc Thomas Delaney Ainsley Maitland-Niles Rob Holding James Tarkowski Phil Jones Issa Diop Japhet Tanganga Omar Colley Philippe Sandler Erik Palmer-Brown Jason Denayer Andreas Hanche Brandon Williams Gary Cahill I notice Maitland-Niles is now linked with going to Everton on loan with an option-to-buy. With his ability to play in a number of positions including defensive midfield I always thought he would be one that we might consider, but obviously not!

I suspect we may give run-outs to a couple of younger players - if not in the starting line-up then on the bench. If Small is fit enough then he could start, but if as has been suggested he is not match-fit then how about Olufunwa? After all, he has been training with the first team. It also makes sense to give a run-out to Simeu in central defende and Watts or Chauke could get an opportunity in central midfield. Another factor is the risk of cup-tying players who we might want to send out on loan (or sell) like Long and Valery Thus here is what I think we could see: ForsterKWP Bednarek Simeu Small? (or Olufunwa)JWP/Diallo Watts/ChaukeElyounoussi(?) RedmondTella/Obafemi BrojaAlso, like with Long and Valery, there may be questions about cup-tying Elyounoussi and/or we might want to give the opportunity for Stu Armstrong to build up some match fitness.

There are a lot of negative posts here from what I can see from a quick scan. Let's just wait and see shall we? Personally, on looking at those videos I find myself seeing both massive potential and yet also some things that may be of concern. Whether they will be of concern remains to be seen as does whether we can bring out the best in him. Nevertheless, this is what I observe so far: He has far more flair pushing out of defence than your typical centre back and great ability moving forwards. That makes him a potentially great defensive midfielder. He looks good at turning a defensive position into an attacking one. Again this makes him good at both CB and DM. He looks good at intercepting passes within a high line - that suits the Saints way of playing. Also good as a DM. He looks good at making raking long passes out of defence. That replaces what we have lost in Vestergaard. His marking in the 7-0 defeat was ok at first but seemed to drift as the game went on. He may need some coaching in that area. In the 7-0 defeat the other defenders around him seemed particularly hopeless, especially for some of the first few goals where Lyanco was not to blame at all. No defender can be expected to do it all - they operate as a defensive unit. We will need to ensure that our defence builds that level of understanding. There is limited evidence of him tackling. Potentially he may need some coaching in that area. He looks good in attack - both scoring from headers and making telling assists. That's brilliant and exciting to see. He may be more of a Ward-Prowse type DM than a Romeu but may have potential in both styles of DM play. Hopefully by buying a cheaper player we can also buy a couple of other players such as Thierry Small and who knows, maybe another player too?!

Where do you get 11? I would agree a few but not 11!! The ones I would say are probably deemed surplus are: Lewis, McQueen (possibly though I personally hope that by January he might begin to rediscover something of his form from several years ago before he got injured), Valery, Elyounoussi, Long and possibly Obafemi - that is 6 players. Who are your other 5? While there may be several players you do not personally like, all of the others are definitely NOT surplus to requirements and, like it or not, will form the core of Saints squad this season, even if only as reserves and subs in case of injury.

So, where does this leave the Saints squad? I would say it is something like this (players only listed in primary positions): GK: McCarthy / Forster / Lewis (3 players for one position) LB: Perraud / McQueen (Possibly Thierry Small or another LB to follow?) (2 players for one position + cover provided by Stephens, Djenepo, Diallo, Livramento, etc.) RB: Walker-Peters / Livramento / Valery (3 players for one position) CB: Bednarek / Salisu / Lyanco / Stephens (4 players for 2 positions) DM: Romeu / Ward-Prowse / Smallbone / Diallo (4 players for 2 positions) AM: S.Armstrong / Djenepo / Redmond / Walcott / Elyounoussi (5 players for 2 positions) CF: A.Armstrong / Adams / Tella / Obafemi / Broja / Long (6 players for 2 positions)

Is Worrall now definitely the leading candidate to replace Vestergaard? Have we discounted all the other possibilities including the following?: Nat Phillips Boubakar Kouyate Flavius Daniliuc Thomas Delaney Ainsley Maitland-Niles Rob Holding James Tarkowski Phil Jones Issa Diop Japhet Tanganga Omar Colley Philippe Sandler Erik Palmer-Brown Jason Denayer Andreas Hanche-Olsen Gary Cahill Tosin Adarabioyo Koni De Winter

OK - Won't our points for our teams from week 1 still count though?

Some of you lot are a joke! Please keep away from our club and go back to Pompey and give them this style of so-called support! Ralph is not perfect but he is streets better than any alternative we might get - including Eddie Howe. Let us be clear here: Bournemouth were relegated despite having new wealthy owners putting in far more to the club than Saints are able to draw upon. They were managed by Eddie Howe. If he couldn't keep Bompey up with all that financial backing, how on earth do you think he could cope with managing Saints?! We have played ONE fixture this season and if it hadn't been for an error early in the second half we could and probably should have gone on to beat an Everton side that featured multiple internationals and players that we could only dream of playing for Saints, including Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison, Dingue, Coleman, Demarai Gray and more. We played that fixture short of a centre back following the sale of Vestergaard and with our two central midfielders short on fitness after recovering from injury. Last autumn we found our club top of the Premier League with confidence sky high after Ralph, the manager that you are dissing, had led the team to play some brilliant football which showed everyone our potential with him as manager. Sadly we then faced a period of difficulty with a huge raft of injuries and, due to COVID, a lack of access to the conditioning facilities which we would usually use to prevent injuries and to help injured players to recover. SO, if you want to support a club that does not have Ralph as manager, there is a simple way to achieve that: Go and give your negative, unhelpful, morale-destroying so-called 'support' to Pompey or one of the other football clubs on offer. We don't need or want your brand of 'support' at Saints. Thanks!

I don't think either of these questions were answered. Personally, as well as my Fantasy Premier League team I have also got a Telegraph Fantasy team and one on Sky Sports. I also do Super 6 predictions. If there are Saints Web leagues for any of these I would be interested in joining. Thanks!

So, what are the potential options for Saints to replace Vestergaard? Here are some of the possibilities including some of the names that have been mentioned and a couple that haven't: Nat Phillips, Liverpool - Age 24 - Strongly linked over recent days but rumours now say he is not currently of interest. Duje Caleta-Car - Age 24, Croatian international. Plays for Marseille. Two years left on current contract. Ozan Kabak - Age 21, Turkish international. Plays for Schalke 04. Nikola Milenković - Age 23. Plays for Fiorentina; Serbian international. One year left on contract. Boubakar Kouyate, Metz - age 24 - linked with Saints recently. Also linked with Newcastle and Norwich. Flavius Daniliuc - 20 years old and plays for OGC Nice in France. Has been linked with Saints and West Ham. Thomas Delaney - age 29, Borussia Dortmund. Defensive midfielder. Now linked with a move to Sevilla. Ainsley Maitland-Niles, Arsenal - Age 23, usually left back or central midfield - flexible to play in a range of positions. Rob Holding - age 25, has dropped down the pecking order at Arsenal following the signing of White. Had been linked to Leicester. James Tarkowski - age 28, only one year of contract left at Burnley. Phil Jones - still on the books at Man Utd and only 29 but has had a career blighted by injury. Issa Diop, West Ham - age 24, we were linked with him a few weeks ago. Japhet Tanganga, Spurs - Age 22, he has been mentioned as possible acquisition, but has also been linked with a loan to Galatasaray. Omar Colley - Sampdoria centre back aged 28 yrs and reportedly of interest to Brighton, West Ham and Leeds at present. Philippe Sandler - Man City reserve centre back, aged 24 and Dutch, with only a year left on his contract. Has been training with first team following return from injury sustained on loan at Anderlecht last season. Erik Palmer-Brown - Man City reserve centre back, aged 24 and US international, with only a year left on his contract. Potentially about to move to Serie A side Venezia. Jason Denayer - Belgian International, age 26, only a year left on contract with Lyon. Andreas Hanche-Olsen - Age 24, Norwegian International, playing for Gent in Belgium. Two years left on contract with Gent. Gary Cahill - age 35 and available for free. Surely he is too old?? Takehiro Tomiyasu - Age 22, plays for Bologna and Japan. Apparently about to be signed by Spurs. Any others that I have missed?

Interesting article about Phillips here: www.thisisanfield.com/2021/08/nat-phillips-still-not-in-training-as-options-open-up-for-15-million-move Personally I think he sounds like an alright buy even if he is very similar to Vestergaard. I remember one match last season wheer the pundits were heaping praise on him for his performance, so let's hope that if we do sign him we see some of that!

This sums it up for me. I agree that it feels like we need to do something about our goalkeeper coaching. I seem to remember that a few years ago we brought in the England goalie coach but FF seemed to go downhill instead of getting better! Nevertheless, I don't know if that is the same coach or coaches that we have now. I also agree that AM is better in a few respects than FF. While I do appreciate the statistical analysis presented in another post above, I think that is only part of the story and doesn't give any weighting tom the relative merits of each keeper. It also only gives and average rather that what each keeper is like at their best. For me the ultimate question is which one is technically the better shot stopper and I believe that is AM. Nevertheless, his big problem at times seems to be concentration and consistency. In terms of distribution, FF is very poor but has learned that he just has to get rid of it by booting it up the field. AM is mildly better at following the preferred approach of passing to a defender, but as others have said he isn't actually very good at this. I sometimes wish he would just do what FF does and ignore the club preference for passing it out to a defender and instead just boot it up the field!

Mate, don't take it personally - I wasn't laughing at you, so no need for being aggressive! My LOL was simply at the thought of Hoddle being the lynchpin battling defensive midfielder in any side. Nevertheless, I will concede that he did probably play himself in a deeper midfield position a few times at the end of his career when he was player manager at Chelsea and Swindon and on a few occasions that may even have been as a sweeper (though not as a traditional central defender). He was hardly there in the Romeu-type role though. In those days the role as it was implemented in many clubs was more about playing within a diamond formation; as such he acted more as a link player between defence and attack, making keys passes. Also, Hoddle was the manager so was able to select himself to play that role. Whether anyone else would have selected him to play that role is perhaps questionable.

LOL - Hoddle never played as a defender nor even as a defensive midfielder! Actually the player in his era who perhaps did have that level of flexibility was Saints captain Steve Williams, though sadly he went to Arsenal and his career pretty much bombed after that! That is an interesting question and assertion. I actually think that even if we have only gone sideways in terms of first team quality, we have actually done far more than that in that we have strengthened our options/depth in reserve and for varying our formations and tactical set-up. With that in mind it is also worth remembering that in the first half of the season we were challenging at the top of the table with strong hopes of making a challenge for a Europa League place at least! Of course, we all knew it was a false position, but if it weren't for our massive injury problems and lack of cover, who knows how much better we might have performed; and now that we find ourselves with a squad with greater flexibility and depth, who knows if maybe we can maintain a higher standard throughout the season? In addition, while last season COVID prevented the club from making full use of its conditioning facilities for treating injuries, etc., hopefully this season we will be able to make more use of these, benefitting the squad even more. Nevertheless, I would love to see at least one addition to the squad and for me the priority is probably a centre back. As far as left back is concerned Salisu, McQueen, Stephens, Diallo, Djenepo, Livramento and Valery can all provide cover there should Perraud get injured, though McQueen is still not listed on the Saints website, so I wonder if his six month contract is more about providing support for him while he rebuilds his fitness.

I was part of the old Saints Web Fantasy League but haven't been part of it for last few years - even last season when I did have a Fantasy football team. I have joined for this season and at present have got Ward-Prowse in my team, though I am concerned as he is injured and not sure he will play on Saturday.

It definitely sounds a good deal, though I'm sure there is that nagging fear of 'what if Armstrong doesn't deliver in the EPL, while Obafemi goes on to become the next great striker in the Championship?!' I doubt it, but who knows?!!

I would like to see him stay but would not be surprised to see him go to Spurs or possibly West Ham. Unlikely to be Everton unless he is content to sit on the bench waiting for Calvert-Lewin or Richarlison to get injured! We would be daft to accept anything less than £30 and should be pushing for as close to £40 (or more?!) as possible if we do sell. Ings should be worth more than Hojbjerg because: He is a striker - strikers typically demand bigger transfer fees than defensive midfielders There are more clubs interested He is a bigger name star player Presumably we are not going to be negotiating to buy another player from the club to which he is sold - unlike with the Hojbjerg & Walker-Peters transfers Spurs are only going to be buying him if Kane is sold and the fee they receive for Kane may potentially inflate all transfer fees that they need to pay to replace him. If he is going to leave then, if we can afford it, we should try to keep him until at least January and bring in Armstrong to get established in the comning months before he goes. Letting him go would be madness if we don't also have confidence that the fee he commands allows us to improve the squad beyond what we lose by selling him. If he stays without having signed the contract, there remains the possibility that he will sign during next season. If he doesn't sign and then gets injured, it reduces the likelihood of another club signing him and increases the likelihood that he may accept the offer on the table anyway. If he doesn't sign this summer but we have an even better start to this season than last year (without the injury difficulties excacerbated by a lack of access to conditioning facilities because of COVID), he may be convinced that Saints can and will achieve more in the future and may see value in staying on - even if only with a one year extension or something. I believe that Ings is committed enough to Saints that even if he isn't going to be staying hw will continue to give his all for us in the season ahead.

If you want a song for him, how about this to the tune of Paradise by Coldplay: "When he played down in France, Saints came in to take their chance. So he left came to Saints to play, To show off the Southampton Way. And now it's Perraud, Perraud, Perraud Life! Perraud, Perraud, Perraud Life! Perraud, Perraud, Perraud Life! Every time we close our eyes!"

Is anyone playing Fantasy Football for the Euros? https://gaming.uefa.com/en/uefaeuro2020fantasyfootball Is there a Saints Web League for this? I have created my own team and would love to join a Saints Web League if there is one... or I am happy to create one if there isn't. Thanks!

*** NB This is NOT a repeat of the other thread discussing whether or not players should be taking the knee and the rights and wrongs of booing them when they do so. If you want to comment on that then feel free to find that thread and comment there. This is a thread aimed at those Saints fans who are supportive of the act of taking the knee and believe it has value in challenging racism. *** Having established the above, I want to make some brief comments, to pose a question and to make a few suggestions for us as Saints fans... * In taking the knee many players still feel that this act still has value in challenging racism within football. This includes Saints players. It is a campaign supported by the 'Kick It Out' and 'No Room for Racism' campaigns and has no direct association with any other organisation or political campaign. Footballers themselves seem perplexed as a result that fans are booing it and continue to renew their determination to challenge racism by taking this simple act. In particular, the England team have renewed their determination to take the knee, following booing by some fans during the friendly against Austria on Wednesday: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57370117 * In the light of the above, what can those fans who are supportive of the 'Kick it Out' and 'No Room for Racism' campaigns (especially as expressed through taking the knee) do to express our support and to silence those who are opposed to this campaign? * I want to suggest a few possible actions that we as Saints fans can take at the start of next season if the act of taking a knee continues: Join the players in taking the knee Cheer in support when the players take the knee to drown out any boos Chant other things in support, e.g. "Kick out racism - racists out!" or "We are Saints; we hate racism!" or similar Report anyone booing the players when they take the knee. What other suggestions do people have for what we can do to express our support for the campaigns to eliminate racism from football?

No-one is taking it to mean anything other than what it does, except the 'lovers-of-the-word-woke' brigade! Taking the knee has always been a symbol of protest against racism started by black sportsmen in the USA, with no agenda except to challenge racism. Within football in the UK it is linked with the 'No Room For Racism' and 'Kick It Out' campaigns and has absolutely nothing to do with Black Lives Matter (if that is what concerns anyone!). As for those who claim that footballers are only taking part because they feel forced to do so, I can accept that that may be the case for some, but there are plenty for whom the action remains an active demonstration of opposition against racism. As a demonstration of this look out for the fact that a number of footballers do not just kneel, but raise their arms in protest too. The problem is that too many of you criticise the actions taken to protest racism and then argue that you are not racist, but are protesting becuse it is 'ineffective'. If you are so concerned that the protest is ineffective then can I suggest that instead of criticising the protest, why don't you come up with something more effective? Until you do, your claims to be anti-racist are hollow and meaningless. I think one of the big problems, as in so many of the issues within football, is that the fans are not involved. So, I want to suggest something completely different than just abandoning the protest and going back to things as they were before... I want to suggest that those of us fans who do, genuinely, want to see racism kicked out of not just football but society as a whole, why don't we join in the protests as well?! I believe that if fans take the knee too, just as fans protested against the actions of the big 6 over the Super League, so the game will be forced to listen and to act.