Verbal

It wouldn't, because the conditions of the tax would be that euro-denominated trades would have to be transacted within the eurozone - precisely for the reason you suggest, that it otherwise give London what to them is an unfair advantage.

Sweden is not in the eurozone, and is a well-run welfare state, so it stands to lose if the EU-imposed budgetary constraints are applied. Ireland, as far as I know, is just muttering about a referendum. But yes, it'll be interesting to see what happens with the imminent victory of the Left in France. Even they won't 'veto' the financial straitjacket - just work around it the way they always have.

The terms and conditions of the proposed euro-denominated transaction tax, as agreed (or so they say they will) by the 26 - an agreement reached outside the formal legal framework of the EU. If it happens, the first fruits of Cameron's veto will be the transfer of billions of euros worth of business from the City to Frankfurt.

There have been a number of assassinations in Tehran - some of them drive-by motorcyclists attaching explosives to cars - of prominent nuclear physicists and nuclear personnel, as well as mysterious explosions at military installations and cyber-attacks on nuclear-related software. So it's already happening.

But you shouldn't be able to tell, with the head in the wrong place.

But they will, thus helping to shore up an eventually stronger euro, and with many more financial transactions shifting from London to Frankfurt.

Why don't we get back to the thread rather than indulge your childish digressions? And why don't you offer a credible explanation for the non-collapse of the euro?

"A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness". How is that 'not really'? And books aren't all bad, you know. Agreed, compared to the internet and youtube they don't add up to squat...

Hmm. Deluded implies some sort of mental illness. So is that how you want to progress with your argument?

The euro, present tense, isn't screwed. It's still there, trading reasonably well given all that's happened. The euro, future tense, is likely to be stronger if the flaky economies are jettisoned from it. Deal with what, by the way? Wake up to whose reality? What's with the aggression? Got stuck in your chair?

Has anyone run this by Dave? Because, veto aside, he sounds as strongly committed to Europe as anyone in the House - and he's certainly made it clear that the veto is not a first step to exiting the EU.

Someone grab something of yours? The point I was trying to make is that surely the euro should be in the toilet by now, after months and months of eurozone crisis. The fact is that it IS still trading so strongly, despite everything that's gone on within the zone.

I thought you were too busy to read books. And honestly, I think left and right can unite (good slogan?) on Frank's posts being in need of an editor (No hostility intended). It's his choice - but I'd recommend the guy who edits Jeffrey Archer.

I really must get an iPad for one of those page-turning thingies.

And yet Labour lead in your favourite opinion polls.

I liked this comment from the Guardian. "Dave, stop. Stop, will you. Stop Dave. Will you stop, Dave?" HAL 9000 2001 Nick Clegg 2011

That's nice dear, shall I put the kettle on?

Try googling 'delusions of grandeur'.

That's saying (a) the NoW probably DID delete but didn't do so consciously; and (b) the NoW DID nonetheless hack Millie Dowler's phone and listen in on her parents' and others' gut-wrenching messages. Hardly an exoneration, is it.

Not if the pound remains as linked as it has appeared to be for all these months of crisis. Both currencies are about on a par with each other in terms of relative movement, and we have a balance of payments deficit with the EU as things stand. A stronger, smaller euro may well take the pound with it, provided the swivel-eyed sceptics in the Tory Party haven't gained ground and somehow forced through a cold-turkey departure from the EU.

I still think it's different from saying the euro itself is failing though. I agree that the single currency, and the budgetary discipline that was supposed to have gone with it, has been seen as something of a game by those countries that have now found themselves in trouble, but the currency itself is strong (as I say, see exchange rates) and will get stronger as the failing bits of it are jettisoned by going into default.

Oh agreed, but the underlying value of the euro is it's a German thing basically, and in the medium term, the more the flaky economies are ejected from it by default, the stronger it looks. If the euro's fate were tied to that the EU as presently constituted, it would have shown signs of going tits up. But that's exactly what's NOT happened.

But you're mistaking the euro for the EU. If you substitute one for the other, I agree with you. The euro itself though is steaming along as if nothing has happened.

Opinion polls also show Labour 4 points head of the Tories. Opinion polls are snapshots. They change. We can take another one in a month's time, when the real harm done by Dave has become clearer, and when the Tory Party really starts eating itself over Europe again, and over Dave's refusal to consider the veto the first step to an exit from the EU.

But in what way has the euro failed? I checked the exchange rate for today and its £1 to 1.17 euros. That's a fraction down since July, but not by much. Where is this collapsing currency? Have the currency dealers just failed to notice its demise?