Rational Rich

If only you'd told me that a week ago. My new turf's just gone down (looking good though) which, come to think of it, is the opposite of Saints, about to go down and looking terrible.

Jimmy Case.

I wouldn't support anyone, but I'd go to watch Manchester United. Once you take the passion and the heart out of the equation, you're left with a just product and so you may as well buy the best. BTW, this will never happen as long as there is a Saints somewhere in the footballing period.

Andy, for the first time in my life I felt myself warming to Holloway tonight, it seems so obvious so why can't Wotte or anyone else at SMS see it? I would have thought that with the transfer window shut there is no point whatsoever not playing the high earners and Euell would be back in. Nice trip to Galpharm and Edgely Park next season. On the bright side there is a bar run by a saints fan in hudders (or at least there used to be).

They're not, but then he doesn't have the history and ha generally been seen as being a positive influence. It is not the now which Lowe is getting it for (and relegation can and does happen to the best of them, as Charlton and many before them have proved), it's the culmination of many years of bad feelings harboured by people. By no means do I blame Lowe entirely for where we are, he has had a significant part in it but so have many, many others, however, I can't see how this can be resolved or how we can turn the atmosphere of the club around so that everyone is pulling in the same direction without him going. If we are to stay up we need to pull together, if we go down we'll need to pull together and if we go bust (no point talking about administration as if it's different, it is to all intents and purposes going bust) we'll need to pull together more than ever before. And at the moment we are divided more than ever before. And I can't see how that can change without some sort of metaphorical blood letting. Being stuck up in Manchester I feel more helpless, hopeless and frustrated than most of the rest of you probably do. We need some positive ideas of how we can change things. You have protested, you have boycotted, we have supported a fans rebellion (Wilde and Crouch) and all have failed and left us worse off than in living memory. Dark dark dark days.

But we've been saying that after pretty much every game this season. I thought before tonight that given time we'd get out of it, but today was like Everton or Villa or WBA away last time we went down. I actually feel a lot less stressed about things now I've resigned myself to it. It's the hope that kills you. I've never really been anti or pro lowe, mainly as I don't particularly like him but couldn't see a viable alternative (especially after being taken in by the hope of Wilde a couple of years ago) and also, I get bored by the boardroom politics (I'm a football fan not a businessman fan), however he is so divisive and has caused so many people to desert us in our hour of need that it's time for a change, even if it is to Crouch and there is no more money. We need something to galvanise the club and the fans and, short of Paul Allen sailing up Southampton Water tomorrow, Lowe stepping down might be the only option.

Apart from Jones (surely you must mean another Jones other than Paul) I can't think of two better benches. Paul Jones was an excellent shot stopper but the rest of his game was suspect. Dave Jones should've stuck with Maik Taylor (nice topical debate there). How about Budgie instead, even if only for the gymnastic warm ups and excellent professional fouls (in the days when all you got was a yellow)

David Puckett is the ultimate Saints sub. Always number 12. Other than that, I remember a period in the late 80s when Shearer and Ruddock were always on the bench, both pretty useful, so I'll go with them.

I'm sure the sweets were cola flavoured, a bit mushy round the edges and rock hard in the middle. Maybe that was just the east stand upper. Talking of which, anyone else remember the bloke who played OWTS on northumbrian pipes in the East Stand Upper Centre? Imagine he would be barred from bringing them into SMS these days.

It was Burley who sold him. Do you think r*dkn*pp will play him at right wing back like he did when he was here?

Trouble is they all cost money, so no matter what happens in the next couple of matches, we've got Wotte. My choice in normal circumstances would be Dowie (all he needs is a clear run at a job) but these aren't normal time so we're stuck with what we've got.

A pre-pack is certainly an option but, as stated above, the purchaser would need to obtain sufficient funding to pay enough to the administrators to discharge the football debt in full and beat any other method of realising the assets

Not necessarily, due to the points penalties etc, why take over a business in a manner that immediately prejudices its capability to make money.

All creditors would be paid off at x pence in the pound. Secured creditors (I would imagine Barclays and NU according to posts on this forum) would get first bite at the funds realised from the sale of the assets they have security over, then the rest goes into the pot. It is for the administrator to judge how best to dispose of the assets for maximum realisations. It might be that if the club can keep going, the stadium could be sold to a property company to rent it back to the club or for redevelopment (though that wouldn't be particularly attractive in the current climate, especially in the part of town where SMS is). The bank/NU would have to consider commercial and reputational issues from knocking down a football ground to build something else (i.e. bad PR, boycotts from football supporters) but ultimately that would be a pounds, shillings and pence decision. Once you are in administration, all bets are off. At least at the moment we have shareholders with diminishing investments to focus their minds running the club (and the only way they will get any money back is for the club to stay solvent and ultimately get back into the prem). the administrators would have no such long term benefits and will deal with getting cash in as soon as possible in whichever way is most efficient.

Sorry, just realised not a full member so had used up my post count. Am now a full member. The administrator would have to liaise with Norwich Union if it (as reported on here) has a mortgage over the stadium. Not exactly sure what the security position is, as its also been reported that the security is over gate receipts.

But only if their bid represents the best realisation of the assets of the company by the administrator. Another bidder/consortium could put a better offer on the table and the administrator would be duty bound to accept it.

I think Lowe will attempt avoid administration at all costs, providing that he does not breach his duties as a director (which could impact on his other business interests). To buy the business from the administrators, he and any other buyer would have to get funding to pay enough for it to outstrip any other offers or the amount that would be realised from ceasing trading and selling the assets piecemeal. And even blue chip credits are struggling for funding at the moment. Also, once in administration, the administrators will make all the decisions instead of the directors (who lose their powers but not their duties). I can't see that there is an incentive for Lowe to put the company down, other than if it is insolvent without realistic hope of being able to trade back into solvency. It may be a rough ride and no doubt he will have to make decisions which split the fanbase further, but as mentioned above, in my opinion playing a team of 11 year olds, getting relegated and having Mr Tumble as manager would be better than the uncertainty and pain that comes with administration, not to mention the points deductions this and (depending on the outcome of the adminstration as with Leeds, Bournemouth etc) next season.

As a banking lawyer and someone who has previously worked for insolvency practitioners, including running companies in administration, there is no such thing as voluntary administration which is different from any other type of administration. Administrators generally are appointed by the court, by a creditor holding a type of security called a "qualifying floating charge" (most banks/funders would ensure they had this from their customers) or by the directors if they believe the company is insolvent (the penalty of not doing so is being done for "wrongful trading" i.e. incurring further debts knowing you have no chance of paying off the creditors (i.e. those who are owed money)). However you go into administration, the administrator has a duty to act in the best interests of all creditors (i.e. not in the best interests of shareholders, fans, directors, league positions etc) and to try, if possible, to ensure the company/business continues as a going concern (so we don't end up in liquidation, which is the end). Ken Tone above is right. Being in administration is not nice, would result in any saleable assets being sold (unless someone comes in and buys the lot to keep the club going), redundancies and people who have even less connection with our club than anyone in the boardroom in the last 5 years running the club and making the decisions. It is the second worst of all options (the worst being liquidation). Having been there and seen it (admittedly not with a football club), admin should be avoided at all costs, even if the costs are Lowe, Jan, Wilde, the academy in the first team, surman going, Lallana going, relegation etc etc etc. If we go into admin, you can kiss goodbye to premiership hopes for a long, long, long time (unless a paul allen type comes in and wants to chuck away his fortune). A bit of a brief and potted explanation, clearly it is not as straightforward as set out above, but it's 7pm, I'm still at work with a massive document to get into typing (so not going home any time soon), but just wanted to quickly add my two penneth.

No. Administration to be avoided at all costs, and if at all possible. It will be horrible and will take us much longer to recover from than simple relegation or any well meant if deluded and ill-conceived policies of Lowe (although appreciate that relegation and Lowe's deluded/ill-conceived policies may well result in administration). Put it this way, if we go into admin, without a sugar daddy rescuing us and willing to lose most of his fortune, you can kiss goodbye to any premiership hopes for many years to come.

If a winding up petition has been presented, a call to the high court would confirm

Can I just say that this is the best thread we have had on this board for absolutely ages, great tales, great memories. Everyone involved should give themselves a pat on the back! Also, message for Teddy Nutkins, any chance of reprising your old Saints Forever column on the Saintsweb website? Always a great read in a similar vein to this thread Cheers Rich

I was once part of the same pub quiz team as Cosimo Sarli, at the White Horse in Otterbourne. Can't remember him answering many questions, but a nice lad. Beat that! I agree with the Tim Flowers comments above, top bloke, had a chat with him at the Millennium Stadium just after the final whistle at the Cup Final (our seats were just by the press box).

inside or outside the club?