Hodgey

It is easier to stay up in this position, than go up from the championship. SR must realise that (they even bang on about it being the 6th best league in the world). So even if they have to pay over the odds for players to improve our team, it’s something they should do. Window not over yet, and I’m not that bothered about Jackson but Rasmussen needs to pull something out of the bag, and if a striker is impossible / how about a top class keeper. It’s not just scoring goals that makes the differentials

The key question is how we are strengthening versus our rivals, not just are we strengthening . So Wolves have just got Dawson in, we are going for Bednerak. Now there is a half decent player somewhere in Bednerak but he is painfully slow and not great in the air. If Jones could make him more aggressive that might work, but I just don’t see that ever being part of Bednerak game. It’s not like when he was playing he would head out all and sundry - I recall an equal amount of free headers as now.

It infuriates me when people buy the clubs nonsense around ‘we can’t compete’ and ‘we can’t find someone better than out championship standard players’. We’re the 30th richest club in the world, we play in a division 90pc of players aspire to, we pay well, it’s a decent place to live, we’ve produced or helped world class players like Bale, Van Dijk, Mane. And if anyone still wants to argue - can I suggest they take a look at Brighton who seem to be able to spot and get the next superstar with regularity, without having to spend 30m plus. Someone should be asking big questions about our scouting network and not making excuses for them.

Ings will get the goals to keep West Ham up , whether he would suit what Jones wants to play is a fair question. Wood probably does - Jones keeps talking how small a side we are and has favoured a big striker to play off, plus last year he landed at a relegation threatened side and helped pull them out of it, so him going to Forest, who I suspect we need to finish above to stay up is a concern. Wolves will be fine as they have a strong squad and class manager, Leicester similar so I’m looking at Bompey, Leeds, Everton, Forest as the teams we need to finish above. We need them all to have bad windows !!

But we didn’t know about Semenyo enquiry unless I missed it. I know a few City fans who really rate him, but they don’t think he’d make the step up to Prem immediately (which is what we need)

Just listened to Jones post match and he said he was poor, also reminded that he’s 20, just off a plane from Argentina and with 1 day training. Could question why play him at all, but Jones seems keen to get minutes quickly in both him and Osric so they can make a quicker impact. Risky, but if we truly believe in their quality then makes sense.

Worse - JWP scores lowest at 5.97 - I’m assuming something went wrong there !!

For me it’s really simple - I can tell that Che Adams is a poor finisher as he cannot use his left foot, he also tends to just hit the ball as hard as he can with his right. Whatever his xG are according to stats, I know this by watching the game, so whilst his poor xG stat could tell me he isn’t a great finisher, by watching the games I know that anyway, and more I know why.

They are both comfortable public speakers so came across well, directly answered questions talking about long term strategy etc. apparently Carlos is like a Frank Lampard or Tim Cahill, and Ankerson basically took credit for this window (so I actually expect him to throw the kitchen sink at it). They did accept this window is about players who can make an immediate impact. Politicians answers about ‘adjusting the squad’ in Jan and strangely no questions or answers about the lack of striker. The Man City game was amazing timing for them, they mentioned it about 50 times. If we do go down and Ankerson and Semmens back up financial support and long term planning words with actions we’ll be OK. There was one classic Ankerson line on Jones ‘we got the best manager in the 6th biggest league’ when talking about risk. Hmmmm

That’s fair - and he is decent with his feet, but his performances so far suggest at best a slim upgrade on McCarthy and not as good as Forster. Again not his fault - it’s ours, player of the season for a league 1 team does not mean you are capable in the toughest league in the world. So far you would be very hard pushed to name more than 1 keeper worse than him and I’ve seen at least 3 goals I thought should be standard saves at that level.

I’d play 4-3-3. Back 4 pick themselves (esp if Tino fit), I’d get an experienced gk on loan - maybe guy from Newcastle, if we can’t find another mid, post Fulham and based on Norway games I’d be tempted to put Moi there alongside JWP and Lavia, then 3 upfront with Osric, Edozie and a new striker which if we don’t get we will go down no matter what. If Jones wants to play hoofball I’d get rid of him immediately as it doesn’t suit our squad / club setup and won’t get us out of the championship. Plenty of options out there as others have mentioned. We also have some really talented youngsters coming through who may not be Prem ready next year but will be Champs ready. At the point it’s clear we are going down lets have a bit of planning on a pathway and 1st team experience so we can hit the ground running next year.

Some good points here, but I would disagree about luck. Individual errors are not luck as it’s players who continuously make them - that’s ability or coaching. Gackpo wasn’t luck either - even if he was going to leave to a smaller Prem team it would have been Leeds. Injuries are not really luck either - every team will face injuries, if you have a suitable plan b it’s not an issue. Also I wouldn’t say we have been particularly unlucky with injuries this season - it just happens to be the one player we have no reserve for (as we sold him). There is absolutely no bad luck involved in aimlessly hoofing the ball 75 times at home to a relegation rival and having no shots on target. That’s simply terrible tactics / coaching good point on Jan - can they make amends ?. 2 clear things they need to do - bring in players who can make an immediate difference, especially a striker (I like Osric move), work out quickly if Jones can ever succeed at this club and if they think he can support him.

Surely even we wouldn’t sell our main striker to a relegation rival ?. Especially one proven in the league below where we may be heading. That said can see him going there end of season if we go down as Leeds are clearly interested and feel like Che would want to go.

I suspect he is playing Moi alongside JWP and 5 at the back (AMN right back). He’s got two def mid on the bench in Lavia / Finnegan. I can only think that Moi (and Lyanco) have impressed him most / onboard / follow instructions and he has seen something in Moi that makes him think he is better as a cm. He’s then trying to support Adams with Aribo and Fandab. It’s a big risk…

Fair enough re Larios, I’ve not seen enough of him but if he isn’t quick and is that small he’ll never make it. Maybe we have another issue at LB then, as I don’t think Perraud can do a wing back job. Hopefully Tino recovers quickly and we can put KWP there, or even AMN at wing back. I’m hoping Jones is making clear to the board that we don’t need more ‘potential to improve’ players, we need 3 experienced leaders with a bit of the devil in them, even if they have negative sell on potential.

I remember when Koeman was on a horrific run, he changed to 5 at the back to stop leaking goals and we rebuilt from there. From what I’ve read Jones likes 5 at the back, if so he should be implementing that and not pandering to others. We absolutely have to become harder to beat as stage one, and if we can’t take easy chances we need to get the single points until we can. 5 at the back should work for us, our ‘wingers’ are all dreadful, we have 3 highly competent cbs, and in Larios and KWP two quick attacking full backs (plus Tino and Perraud). Let’s be honest, 4 at the back hasn’t worked either so we need to do something new. I’m concerned that Jones has tried to implement this, and got cold feet after friendly losses and Lincoln performance. He now seems to be in no man’s land with a system he dislikes, the players prefer, but still losing games of football. Even Brighton we’re confused we didn’t play 5 at the back, and any element of surprise didn’t work.

It’s Jones job to get the likes of KWP, JWP, Tino etc back to their best, we know the first two have a higher ceiling than they are showing. Diallo and JWP will never work together, we know that, Jones is new but Selles knew so should not have been tried again. Some will say who else, my response - Armstrong or play 3 cms (of course this should have been fixed in the summer when they sold OR, along with a striker) I think an on form JWP is pretty much our ceiling - I think this debate will be moot come season end, we’ll be down and he will be off, he’ll have plenty of suitors. Guess we will find out then how good he really is and if we can do better.

The WPs will be off, Walcott out of contract, Lavia Salisu and ABK as potential with prem experience. Maybe Adams. Tino will need to prove fitness so see him staying. That would leave Bazuna, McCarthy, Willy Tino, Payne Perraud, Small, Larios Bednerak, Stephens, CC, Lyanco Diallo, Smallbone Moi, Fandab, Djenepo, Aribo, Armstrong, Dibling, Tella Morgan, Armstrong, Mara, Ballard You would think we would get c £100m in sales and reinvest c £50m which added to the above (need a cf, rb and 2 dms) you would hope would have us top 6 minimum.

It’s not the way I would have gone, and I think we will go down, maybe a top manager could have kept us up. But firing him and his staff now and appointing a Dyke doesn’t make much sense. I’d love Wood here but he’s playing well for Newcastle so even with his ex manager he isn’t coming. I still think he would be a success in rebuilding when we go down, but I am worried that by then he may be past the point of no return from the fans and players. If you believe the rumours (and he was linked before) Jones has clearly been a target for a while. There MUST be a plan here, or the whole thing is beyond madness and makes no sense. So SR have to enact and communicate that plan. Jones has to be backed in this and the next window, but the board need to be clear with Jones that fans need to see a plan quickly. If that means he had to drop star players, fine, sell disruptive players, fine, buy a big cf lump from the championship fine. Then there are the players, again SR need to quickly make a decision here. Can Jones win most of them round ? What support does he need to do so ?. What a mess SR have made of this so far. The priority has to be a clear plan / style that the players and fans can understand. You can’t try 5 different tactics in one match, that reeks of desperation and a lack of faith. I do see why people want him out. I resigned myself to relegation a while back as I simply think our players aren’t good enough and SR strategy was deeply flawed, so I’m looking at how we quickly bounce back rather than stay up (which would be a massive bonus). Top quality managers won’t come to a club looking like relegation certs, who have just fired someone after 2 games. We had that chance before but chose Jones.

It would be a disaster in that we spent £50m added to a team who stayed up and still went down. Get the Stoke point, but last 3 seasons Watford, Fulham, WBA, Bompey, Norwich and Sheffield Utd have gone down. 2 of those are back in the Prem, 2 have gone up and down again, and 4 of those teams are currently in the top 5 of the Championship. So as a pc we are much more likely to be in the mix for an immediate return than wallow in mid table or worse. All that said this is Saints we are talking about so we’ll probably do a WBA/Stoke, but we clearly have a good number of championship players and a manager who knows that division, so the raw materials are there.

This is one of the positives I’m clinging on to if we go down. We seem to have a good number of players too good for the championship but not good enough for the Prem, and a manager who knows the division. Whilst we would inevitably lose ABK, JWP, Salisu, Lavia - I think we’d have the talent to go straight back up (ie Adams, Tella and Armstrong should be able to score plenty of goals) once we mentally learn to win again

Didn’t we ? Thanks Steve, I thought we did as I so clearly stated in my post, which you clearly read and understood. I’m glad you are around to aggressively steer me right. Boy do I feel silly - better take my dumb ass off this forum

I’m predicting that Jones will be a success, although maybe not immediately. I’m hoping that he gets a good year minimum - even if we go down, so im going to try and hold judgement. Im also hoping he gets the freedom to bring his own strategy (ie not have to follow Ralfs playbook) and hopefully the types of players he needs (so not just young potential types). Patience and support required here from all (esp the board) or this was a silly appointment.

They should not be, and are not, really happy. This is a PR article to appease the fans, behind the scenes there will be blamestorming and finger pointing galore. they have clearly made some big errors, which they are trying to justify. Yes there is well thought through strategy, but the execution so far has been poor. some of the nonsense about Jones having to follow the Ralph playbook (whatever that was) you would hope is just rubbish. As is the quote about how happy they were about the transfer window. Plenty of time to put it right, but this is to be taken with a massive pinch of salt

I think the problem with relegation this year is that it sets us back hugely with our strategy. We’ll only make big money on young players if they are showing their capabilities in the Prem, plus if we go down the pressure to sell the family jewels cheap grows and the players will agitate for a move more than ever. Plus high potential young players won’t want to join. Plus we’ll be saddled with a fair few average championship players on Prem wages we’ll struggle to sell. If we can stay up however, we may only need to sell a couple of young players for huge money, have the benefit of a years experience from the remaining high potential young players, and can reinvest and attract players who want a chance in the Prem. This is why SR have made such a massive error, the risk was too high not securing a big money striker.