Saint86

To paraphrase, "with the greatest respect, respect is earned".

Everton? What?!? They're a club bankrolled by an owner that has been living well beyond their means and at the limit of FFP spend for consecutive windows. They can't be scoring too highly for fan engagement either.

You think we'll see significantly more player turnover than that? From the fan's forum it sounded like the financial investment and backing was there, and a lot of our younger players will be on lower wages and long contracts - i.e. less pressure to sell. Whereas its a given that more established players nearing the ends of their contracts will be more likely to leave - clearing off higher wages and reducing the financial pressure to sell others due to transfer fee income and lower overall wages.

With Jones, a likely worst case is: Bazunu Bree Lyanco Bednarak DCC/ABK Perraud Diallo Alcaraz Edozie/Ely Tella/Djnepo Adams/Onuchua Possible rotations / inclusions for Adam and Stuart Armstrong, Orsic, Stephens, Tino (assuming he makes it back in a decent state), Walcott. Given contracts, the need to generate revenue, and SR view on player ages - we can be fairly confident that KWP, Salisu, and Lavia will all be gone for certain. Can't imagiine that Sulemana will be sticking around but who knows. Whether JWP stays or not is up in the air. I don't know how long Janny B's contract has left, but you would imagine that we'll keep hold of 2 of Lyanco, ABK, and DCC? Perraud and Bree both adequate for the championship, as should Tino be (we'd hope - but no guarantee). I can't see us selling many of our other attackers - the one thing we do know is that Tella, Adams, Armstrong, and you'd think Onuchua - should all be pretty lethal in the championship... Whilst that team is a spectacular fall from grace / drop in quality. You would fancy us to at least get playoffs with that team surely? Even with jones 😰

If they don't act, they'll lose control of football regulation to the government 🤷‍♂️

Playing squad clearly poor for both managers. The main criticism we're all levelling at Jones is his persona and the way he has carried himself in the recent post match interviews. Clearly struggling under the pressure of it all and should never have come out like that to attack the fans and criticise the players. As Semmens said, "stupid", and something that has very likely caused irreparable damage. Take that out of the equation and in fairness he probably does deserve the chance to use the new signings... just as Ralph actually deserved to be given a decent striker, winger, and someone other than Diallo/AMN to play in CDM!! When Ralph had a competitive attack, we were a very good side... Who thinks they'll be saying the same about Jones in a months time?

I remember it as a cold winter midweek(?) evening with the fans being somewhat unsure what to make of it all. The chants were for Adkins and grumbling at Cortese for how he had treated him. I don't remember any flack at all being directed at Poch. I went with my old man, sat in chapel, openminded on poch and gutted for Adkins. We both came away thinking things were going to be alright under Poch. I still think Adkins was on course to keep us up that year and it was a harsh sacking (somewhat cut short his managerial career if we're honest), but Poch was a different class of manager so 🤷‍♂️.

Nah, if they're found guilty of most of these charges they're done. They'll be stripped and kicked out. Will mean they've essentially cheated financial rules to overspend every season since 2009 - impacting on the competitiveness of other teams, they're league finishes, as well as the required cost of remaining competitive in the league. Teams have been sticking to the rules whilst City may have been paying shadow contracts to staff and players - effectivley ignoring FFP and allowing them to dope themselves to the hilt every season. All of which has compounded over the years. The big 6 will turn on them, sides like us will have had placements affected on the odd rare seasons, domestic cups have been won, and there will also be inevitable follow ups related to 3rd party ownership and tax matters. Plenty of examples in Rugby, European football, and even cases like Swindon in this country.

There is an element of him being the right guy at the perfect time for this tbh. The real judgement really should be on Rasmus. Its abundantly clear that he is Rasmus' man, that rasmus appointed him, and likely also that Rasmus is the reason he hasn't be sacekd. Jones is Jones and clearly has his flaws - but one person in particular has created this situation - and that is Rasmus, the guy leading SR who said they weren't going to interfere too much in the running of SFC. When you add Jones' short fuse, the ease with which he gets wound up, and his atrocious media persona together, and then combine it with the club wide disaster that is unfolding under Rasmus' decision making to date - its not really a surprise that the fanbase has just gone after the obvious target.

Yes fine, but given they all know how sensitive the situation is (and Semmens most of all given it wasn't his first rodeo).. I think he knew exactly what he was saying, and he went as far as he could to make it clear he had no time for Jones.

Only Rasmus was, and i thought it was clear that he couldn't really give a toss - Jones is his man and he isn't going to change it based on fan feeling. The only thing that will be achieved by fan toxicity now is to accelerate the race to the bottom. I am on the fence over whether that is a good thing or not - depends if you think we're in terminal decline, or if given infinite patience by daddy rasmus, Jones might actually start winning (as obnoxious as he is) - and we have put in some good performances under him. Semmens called Jones stupid and said that he wasn't happy with his conduct and was quite concerned. I would say its quite likely that Semmens would have sacked Jones. Everyone remembers when SR said they weren't going to get too involved in running the club... well right now we've got a manager specifically hired by Sports Republic and Rasmus, and which SR are preventing us from getting rid of. The only way you'll get change here is going after Rasmus - Semmens isn't the villain of this piece, and indeed i have started to think he hasn't done much wrong to deserve the ire he's getting from some of the fans. Technically Jones doesn't deserve the personal vitriol he is getting from some fans. He is out of his depth and struggling with the pressure - none of which is particularly nice to see. Ultimately Rasmus gave him the job (by all accounts it sounds like a "now or never" style approach from saints), and Rasmus is happy with his metrics off the pitch - as well as overestimating his on pitch performances and personality traits i would say 😆😰

Another two goals in the cup last night. Sincerely hope we can keep him and getting him playing for us... or as an absolute minimum get a good sale price out of him.

But then why have they got better since he left... 😨 Unless its the infamous momentum curve in action 😏.

Semmens publucally called Jones stupid in from of a live recorded fans forum 😂 and it's then gone out. How often does that happen at a premier league club. I don't think semmens is the bad guy that the fans make him out to be tbh. Was obvious Rasmus is the one backing Jones. To me, it seems like rasmus lives in a world where he doesn't care what the fans think of his decision making - which could ultimatley be good or bad subject to how it all turns out... However, precious few people are backing him on Jones... The most telling thing rasmus said, was basically that he'll stick with a mananger as long as he can "improve the players"... So what I actually heard there was assets... which says fundamentally to me that he sees asset/player value increases and player trading to be as important (if not more) to him than Premier league survival? Or am I the only one who heard / took it that way? I guess that wouldn't be so surprising from a guy from brentford and the crazy profits they made (whilst achieving ultimate promotion and building a new stadium). Could the difference here be that brentford got lucky with their mananger, and that Rasmus has taken that to mean all his appointments will work out as well? Or that the brentford success wasn't really due to Rasmus? Tough one for the fanbase tbh. I guess we have to go into wolves backing the team. But another loss and the toxicity is only going to ramp up and may lead to a change. A draw would be the worst result - fall further adrift and more likely to prolong the paralysis.

Indeed. I remember all Rasmus' guff about understanding saints and the culture of our club... but here we are with them blocking the pathway for our academy kids and trying to get us playing 5 at the back hoof ball. Broadly speaking we're a fanbase that wants to see the team play attacking football and have a go, with a smattering of academy players in and around the first team.

To be honest, if you want to get change, go after the people above Jones - start posting Rasmus out and going after Rasmus and SR on social media. They are ultimately the ones at fault, and given that, they're probably not that fussed if jones takes flack in the short term. Conversely, if you shine a light on Sports Republic and get that trending with Saints' 1.5M twitter followers, it will immediatley be damaging their brand and future business opportunities. Nathan Jones is not a brand.

This.

Agreed, although Dragan may attend. Though technically SR are the owners and Rasmus is the king there - i.e. Dragan is the money man, not the boss. Not saying we should do what Everton's fans did, but they certainly got a reaction by making the atmosphere extremely vociferous for the board - sit ins, protests at the training ground etc. SR's approach to Jones has been weak as well. "A stay of execution" - what does that really mean? Are they hoping he'll turn it around? As fans that message surely says that if we kick off enough, he'll be gone... But kicking off and creating a toxic atmosphere will cost us points and increase the likihood of relegation. They'd have been better off saying that he is staying until the end of the season / until relegation, or sacking him imo. Instead they've left uncertainty where increased toxicity will fester.

The academy was the best side in the country last year - outside of man city's u18 galacticos equivalent, and between them they put a lot of effort and good work into the academy and training setup. The scouting had somewhat recovered (i.e. no more leminas, hoedts, boufals, or vestergards) and a lot more smarter acquisitions like KWP, Broja, Tino Salisu, likely ABK etc. The women's team has certainly significantly improved as well... All of which should be praised given we didn't have a pot to piss in and with a significant loan and covid losses hanging over the club. So yes, minus the total lack of funds for the first team, Semmens and Ralph did a fairly reasonable job i'd say. Also, I didn't say SR "decimated" the squad (that was someone else misquoting me), i'm saying they've damaged our squad - and it is a real mess imo. Now you're ofc welcome to disagree, but we're bottom of the league and have played half a season with no competent attackers for this level. Not to mention our summer of recruitment ultimately weakened our midfield with no cover for Lavia. Where do you stand on the Forster vs Bazunu appraisal? Anyway, I don't know what else you would call that given we're in a league where you have to strengthen just to survive...? We're bottom of the league and have spent half a season with glaring holes in the squad 🤷‍♂️

Fine I'll rephrase, they've spent that money on players that aren't ready yet and overall are not of the required standard... Which means we're one of the highest spenders in the league and we've gone backwards vs the competition. I agree lavia and ABK are both good players - but I was talking about the squad, not individuals. When you add that to the total upheaval in coaching setup and playing style (as you say), the academy, scouting and recruitment etc. Then what you have is one big mess - that's the result of 18 months of SR. The club currently has no visible identity and/or direction. And against all that, performances on the pitch continue to decline. All of which could have been so much different with a good striker and mananger - although that wouldn't resolve the off the field turmoil. I don't blame Ralph or Semmens for that tbh. Those 2 had done a good job keeping the club going but didn't have the funds to strengthen the team, I suspect that with the money and no SR oversight things would have been quite different. Ultimatley, it's all since SR and Rasmus came in that it's started to get really messy - and we have to hope they've got the money to see this through, and the ability to learn very quickly now. As for Jones, he is sadly just out of his depth and floundering big time atm. Impressive really quite how much damage he's done to harminony and the fan relationship - if he had just kept his thoughts to himself for the last 2 games' post match interviews it would have been so much better 😂😢... Now it all looks very terminal. Sadly a toxic atmosphere won't help the team or the club, similarly I think social media protests have minimal impact. I echo the views that a near empty SMS would make a strong impression, similarly a protest at the fan forum could get the message through.

I personally think Semmens and Ralph did us alright. But rasmus' decision making has been an absolute car crash from the start. We had stability and indeed growth off the pitch before SR. They've spent over a hundred million and damaged the playing sqaud, and any stability in the coaching, academy, and scouting departments. They're on the verge of setting the club back 10-15 years...

Yeah it does look like that, which isn't great to see, and its why i am trying to keep it all non personal. Myst be horrendous for him really, works to build his career, has a nightmare at stoke, rebuilds his career, and is probably having flashbacks now... Hes the kind of manager who (if he's ever going to make it) needs to get to the prem by himself with his own side... And in hindsight, we were always going to be a nightmare for whoever we took on because of the post Ralph hangover.

needs to happen... similar to a "you fat bastard chant"... build it... build it... and realease! "hands up if you want jones out!!!!". Repeat again. Needs to happen.

So wait, Sutton said something that everyone agrees with... 🤯 unless ofc your name is Rasmus...🤣

Our team in the championship next season under Jones... Pretty much seen that back line already... Bazunu, Bree - Lyanco - ABK - Bednarek - Perraud Diallo - Alcaraz Moi AA Che Might get lucky and retain players like Tella, Orsic, DCC, Sulemana, Onuachu, i doubt it somehow. 4 of them must be regretting their move here and Tella could be going into a breakout season in the prem. Salisu, KWP, Lavia are all certain to be sold. Quite likely JWP but we'll see. ABK could also get taken off our hands - in which case i guess we'll see Lyanco, stephens, and bednarek as our 3CB's for Jones' Championship run... Some may think that isn't that bad - but what a fall from grace it is considering where we are. Imagine achieving that within 18months and a £100M plus net spend. Not to mention taking apart much of the backroom scouting and academy set ups. Impressive really. And the elephant in the room behind all this. We've massively shat the bed overspending on player wages, agents fees, contract terminations etc. The recruitment (especially this january) has been all over the shop, and we're going to run smack into EFL's FFP limits. Similarly our owners are not really that rich. There is a very large abyss where we're heading if we aren't careful. I guess Rasmus directly targeted a manager who could compete in the championship on a shoe string budget...