Wes Tender

Good to see you Alpine. According to another thread, somebody was missing you.

Your opinion is based heavily on the premise that the club needs the Echo. It doesn't. The Echo will be forced to report what goes on at matches and at the club regardless, as they rely heavily on Saints fans buying their little rag. Nobody will notice the difference except that the Echo will be reporting things a little later than some other media and there is an increased risk that their information might not be as accurate, but again, most will hardly know the difference there either. When you talk about the media, the Echo is a titchy, titchy little part of that. I suspect that far more Saints fans look to the club's own site for news and information than to the Echo as it is. And as has been pointed out by several people until they are blue in the face, your assertion that the reason was inconsequential is totally and utterly based on your conjecture. It was obviously not inconsequential to Cortese even if when the actual reasons become clear it might seem so to you. But as you don't run the club, your opinion doesn't count for much. No offence.

You said it. Been on the festive juice?

If your comprehension of the English language was better, then you'd realise that by asking whether the club was obliged by any legal obligation or any other set of rules or regulations to provide the local rag with any information was meant to show how stupid the posters are to make too much of it. As their obligations towards the press are nil, then going off the deep end about their withdrawal of access privileges and labelling it censorship or control is plainly ludicrous. You could also have noticed that I said that it was not some International scandal and you might also have realised that Watergate was one of those, so at least we agree on that, then. And why did you call me love, dear?

When one talks about people leaving before the final whistle, you really have to be clear that they are actually leaving. Habitually I will start my way down to the exits when the 4th official puts up his board at the end of the 90 minutes. I do this because in the Northam it is particularly slow clearing the stand and I want to make a quick getaway and get to my car before the traffic freezes. However, I am not leaving early, as I find a spare seat close to the exit and stand there watching the play until the final whistle. I did that last night and when the equaliser was put in by Papa, I had an excellent view of the penalty shoot out from behind virtually the middle of the Northam goal. So when you see many streaming down the aisles before the final whistle, not all of them are leaving early.

MLT's last Dell goal against the Arse for me too, together with the 3-1 win against Newcastle after Flash, Shipperley and Heaney (I thought Le tiss, but apparently Heaney) scored in March 1995. There were about 3 minutes of the 90 remaining and we trailed 1-0 to newcastle who were pretty near the top of the Premiership, whereas we were close to our customary foot of the table position. Many had already left having consoled themselves that it was no disgrace losing narrowly to them when we scored three times and left Newcastle stunned. Naturally, I would also have to include the four years that ManUre gained just one point out of 12 against us, the 2-2, 6-3, 3-1 and 1-0 years at the Dell.

That is something that I noticed too and wondered what the benefit is of packing all of the players into one half of the pitch when our goalkeeper is kicking out from his area. A more packed left field obviously means that there is an increased risk of one of their players getting the ball. If we placed at least one wide player out to the other side, it would give an opportunity for the goalkeeper to kick to that player who would have acres of space to run into. Naturally, because of that, the opposition would be forced to put two players onto marking him, thus freeing up the spaces in the middle and left flank. Simple, surely? So why don't we do it?

Presume you're talking about the ex-Leicester and England goalkeeper rather than the graffiti artist? I agree though, Bialkowski was a hero last night and we have much to be grateful to him for. There was also a great save from him during the match too.

Congratulations the both of you for reading one side of the story and then flying in a tizzy of righteous indignation about how dare Cortese throw his weight around like a school bully and pick on the poor defenceless little regional paper. Just answer me a couple of questions:- Is the Club obliged by any law or set of rules or guidelines to pass on information to the Echo? Is the decision regarding that within the remit of the Club's chief executive? Is there not some expectation also that the Echo ought to show some maturity and professionalism too? Having hopefully answered those questions sensibly, I would also hope that the two of you would wind in your necks and lay off the histrionics as if there had been some International scandal and try and get some reasonable perspective.

Ah, but Bialkowski made a hat trick of penalty saves. Couldn't it be argued that ought to have the match ball too?

Didn't he score a penalty too?

Again, I disagree. But it's all opinions. It is easy to have the impression that it was the other way around, as we were chasing the game and scored right at the death, whereas our purple patch was earlier, 20 minutes of the first half and then more dominant also in the last half of the second half. And I reiterate, the proof was that the better team didn't indulge in cynical gamesmanship and cheating. We continued to play good passing and attacking football and eventually gained our reward.

Whereas it was sort of charming that the kid ran on and Papa's lovely response does him great credit for its warmth, it was nevertheless wrong. At what age do you draw the line on this? The adult/s accompanying him should have prevented him doing it.

I disagree. I thought that we shaded it as the better team. Yes, there were periods when each team were in the ascendancy, but overall I thought that we were better than them. The better team wouldn't need to resort to cynical fouls and gamesmanship, would they?

Admit it, Paul Lambert. It is simply a case that on the day, Saints were better than Norwich. It's as simple as that. It's only poor losers who blame the referee.

A very nervy match up to the 90 minutes somehow and then what followed was not good at all for my blood pressure. I had contemplated leaving the stadium at the 90 minutes and listening to the result after it was all over. Instead I stayed and watched it with almost a morbid fascination, every kick a rollercoaster of emotion. We had started well and deservedly took the lead, but Norwich are also a good team, very much at our level in this division. I realise that we had fielded a weakened team last night, with an eye on the Leeds match on Saturday, but I do not know whether Norwich had done the same. I am convinced that with a full strength team we would beat Norwich, There were passages of play from us that were sublime, some lovely cameos from certain players that illustrated that we do have some real quality in the team. But there was a doubt in my mind as to whether the defence was right. Perry has been good alongside Jaidi, but I wondered whether he would be as good alongside the lesser experienced Trottman. James has been OK at right back, but again I wondered whether with Thomas on the bench, we would have been better with him at RB with James in midfield, where he has excelled. Papa was awesome and I can't particularly remember him being offside. Sometimes at this level, he is unplayable by defences. Am I right in thinking that this was the first time though that we had both Papa and Antonio on the pitch at the same time? It might have been a gamble, a last throw of the dice by Pardew, but it certainly upped the anti considerably and injected some real pace and unpredictability into the game. When Norwich went ahead and the clock ticked down, I confess to giving up on my team and believing that we would lose, that it was one of those nights. I should have had more faith in the players. This isn't the team of the past few years. It isn't the team that loses penalty shoot outs either, although they attempted to be so. Thankfully Bialkowski proved that he has some nerve and self-belief, although he has only been back a comparitively short time and one wondered whether his confidence and resolve were yet at the level required. Again, I should have had more belief, as he clearly did. His confidence now must be sky high and I'm very pleased for him. As for the players, they too must be very up for the game against Leeds.

Anyway, off to the match I go, to witness for myself how the team are playing and to form my own opinions, rather than have some journo tell me what his own opinion of the game was.

You are worthy of being a newspaper journalist yourself, as you have put a spin on what I said that would have had the Echo editor patting you on the back and mentally fast-tracking you for a bright future with them.

Any sensible person will temper what they read in any newspaper as not being an objective piece as it will be slanted in a particular direction often in line with Editorial policy, or the angle that the owner wishes to put on it. Anybody who believes that most of the stuff that they read in the local rag is pure news without that slant, is naive. Therefore, when I read a post from a journalist moaning about how the PR people waste his time and want to show their clients in a particular light, then I'm inclined to think, tough. The newspapers are guilty of the very same thing themselves and the readers have to read between the lines to get to the uncluttered facts, the bare bones of the piece. The papers are perfectly capable of taking a quote out of context to completely alter the perception that others might have of an individual or a group if that is their inclination. They might decide that they don't like somebody, a party or a group and then run a campaign of character assasination to ruin them. They sensationalise everything, as good news isn't news in their opinion. Rather than publish an article about what a happy family man Graham Murty is, or how Adam Lallana likes to walk his dog on the Common, they would far rather report that they were womanising like Tiger Woods, or that they beat their wives, or at least went out clubbing and drink driving. The most that they have written about any Saints players in recent times was about Dyer and B-WP and didn't they just love that? As far as the Echo's coverage of the local team is concerned, obviously it is slanted in favour of that team. But from the internet it is possibly through sites like News Now to read the reports of the local rag of the rival team, to read the comments from their fans. By reading both sides, one is far more likely to make a reasoned judgement and get some objective balance. Just as we have only read about one side of this episode and therefore have no balance here either.

Please wish Ron a Happy Christmas and a better New Year from me.

And Christmas starts in the malls before the end of October, so that by the time it has actually arrived, one is heartily sick of it anyway. The blatant consumerism has killed the Christmas spirit stone dead. And then when Boxing Day is over, there are several days of nothingness apart from endless dross and repeats on the telly and suffering from the excesses of too much rich food and too much drink. No relief from seeing clients, as most of them have shut up shop until the first week in January. At least one can console oneself that after the 21st, the days are once again getting longer. I usually go away to the Far East for some tropical sun for three weeks from just before the New Year, but can't this year. Oh well, at least there are one or two home matches that I would otherwise have missed to console myself.

My God! Some people are becoming very precious about this. One can understand the position of the jounalist attempting to portray those of his profession as shining lights in the local community, when often the way that they act makes many of the general public hold them in low esteem, but to attempt to make this a debate on the freedom of the Press is taking things to ridiculous levels. Censorship or control of the local media is definitely not what this little episode is about. If any sensible person were to look at this in perspective, both the club and the newspaper have an interest in a mutually condusive relationship. The Club can utilise the newspaper to give them publicity and use them as a means of communication with the local community. The newspaper can use news regarding the local football club as a vehicle to sell copy to a large audience of subscribers who follow the team. To enable the relationship between the two parties to function smoothly, there has to be a degree of give and take between them. It is simply ludicrous to conclude that if the club wish to distance themselves from the Echo for whatever reason that they are therefore guilty of censorship or wishing to control the media. The Club has the perfect right to either welcome the press or distance itself from it as they see fit.

This comment from Murray at the Echo sums up just how out of touch they are with football in this City, unless of course the "we" referred to the Echo. I can see why they would miss him, as there were campaigns to oust him by the fans, there were boardroom upheavals, EGMs, mad quotes about Neanderthal fans and Klingons, all useful in boosting circulation. What are they left with now? A fanbase united more than any other time in the club's history, an owner, Chief Executive and manager doing a decent job of running the show, players who are largely acknowledged to be playing to the best of their ability and generally thought of as being as good as we could expect in this division. Understandable that the Echo is unhappy because they do not have the turmoil and upsets that sell copy, so they are having to stir the pot themselves instead. It is a risky strategy they employ and it will backfire to their detriment. They are largely and increasingly an irrelevance.

I regret to admit that I am old enough to recall that if Christmas Day and Boxing Day (the following day) fell on a Saturday and Sunday, that was tough. You were back at work on the Monday, having also worked the Christmas Eve. There was no such thing as having New Years Day off either. In historical terms, it is only comparatively recently that we have had this system introduced whereby the poor worker feels so hard done by when those days fall on a weekend and of course, we couldn't possibly expect people to work on the New Years Day when they had been out on the p*ss the night before. The trouble with this all is that because the weekend intervenes somewhere along the line, the situation has arisen whereby it is not deemed worthwhile for many businesses to reopen for the intervening one or two days falling between Christmas and the New Year and then often there are weekends falling on the New Year too, so that many have a holiday between Christmas Eve and up to the 4th/5th January. Now, it might be that this has all evolved to bring us into line with our European counterparts, many of whom have holidays on patron Saints days and commemorate national days, but in reality, it is not much fun having so much time off at the very poorest time of the year weather wise. Some are lucky enough to head for warmer climes during that time, or to go skiing in Europe, (provided that they are not flying British Airways), but for others, nothing could be worse than nearly two weeks off during the dullest, dingiest, darkest, dankest, most dismal time of the year. Any Government with any sense would come to an arrangement with the Unions to take a week off the Christmas holidays and grant it for August instead.

Well, you're obviously underwhelmed, which is your entitlement and I can see how you got your name, Mash. But the point that I made was really that it was the first time that the slow version had been sung by any real number of the fans and it seemed to me that it was the whole stadium that took it up. I was enthused by the possibility that having heard it taken up by so many, that the slow version of the song will grow in popularity and remain the slow version for longer than it is now, when after one chorus it gets geed up into the faster version. Other teams might have adopted it, lacking in imagination as their fans are, but we are the biggest club in British football that can actually sing that song with the original words of the title without having to substitute the word Saints for their team name. As such, it is more our anthem than anybody else's and we ought to reclaim it.