Wes Tender

No doubt that politics has changed recently since he believed that there is no place for a second progressive Party in British politics and Brexit is the catalyst for that. Current politics is now more about Leave or Remain than it is about left or right. There is an irony in claiming that there is no place for a second progressive party and then lauding the success of pro-remain parties in the EU elections. The main progressive party didn't do very well, did they? Other smaller progressive parties did rather better than them, perhaps because the electorate didn't know what Labour stood for, their understanding of its position not helped by Adonis. You're not sure what he said on TV or its context, so you'll have to accept my word? You really are slipping. Google is your friend. You never have any difficulty in finding out any other links to info that supports your arguments. I've provided a link for you. Yes, Radio 5 is part of the Beeb, but I did say that I hadn't seen him on the Beeb, inferring that I was talking about the TV, not the radio. I can't remember the last time I listened to Radio 5. Probably they did show him on the Beeb (TV) because he was a remoaner candidate and also very pro a losers second referendum. They hardly showed any Brexit Party candidates, despite them thrashing the pro-European vote parties. But that's the Beeb for you all over. He doesn't get under my skin. I mainly brought him up to mock him for his failure, he being a friend of yours apparently. I love watching him for pure comedy entertainment value. His appearances help increase support to the Leave campaign, the batty privileged Lord who hasn't been elected to anything above local politics, lecturing the great unwashed from his ivory tower about how they weren't bright enough to know what they were voting for the first time around, so they needed to vote again until they got it right.

Well, the only time he actually was elected way back at the start of his political career was as a local Councillor for the SDP then the Lib Dims. He told everybody not to vote Labour at the start of the EU election campaign, so he is one very confused bloke. I suspect that most of his thick skin surrounds his brain. Thanks for mentioning Campbell. Which is worse would you say? Telling everybody on TV that you had voted for another Party, or telling everybody on TV that they ought to vote for another Party? It was probably easier to dispatch Campbell from the Party, as the embarrassment of expelling Adonis when he was a candidate would have been huge. Perhaps he wasn't elected because the voters in the South West didn't know what Labour stood for, aided and abetted in that misunderstanding by him, the Labour candidate. I said that he had been on the Beeb constantly pre the election and I hadn't seen him since (on the Beeb). HTH. He is damaged goods when it comes to them trying to make out that the Remoaners had actually won the election technically, as he didn't even get elected himself.

Shurlock, mate, did I dream it, or did you say that Lord Adonis was a friend of yours? If you've touched base with him these past few days, I'd be interested to hear how Andy felt about his ignominious failure to get elected as an MEP. Regrettably for him, he has only managed to get himself elected as a local Councillor in his political life so far, every other position having dropped in his lap. He was on the Beeb constantly before the elections, but appears to have vanished from sight ever since. I do hope that he is alright.

I'm keen on the result of another court case, that brought by Robin Tilbrook, claiming that as May's extension was illegal, we have already left the EU.

You seem to be going off at half-cock, as usual, mate. Read back and see that it wasn't me who posted those Ashcroft polls, I wasn't "creaming myself" at the result, I was only mentioning it at all because Jeff thought wrongly that it supported the mistaken position that you loser remoaners hold, that the Remain vote is now greater than the Leave vote. It didn't penetrate, obviously, that by stating that the only poll that matters is the actual election, that I don't have much faith in polls. They are very often wrong before elections, when voters change their minds when their pencils are poised over the ballot paper, but as the time before the election grows longer, the potential for them being wrong grows exponentially. Who is deceiving themselves here? I'd say that it was you loser remoaners who cannot accept that you were well beaten in the referendum, well beaten in the EU elections, and lack the good grace to accept the defeat like any good democrats would. Talk about behaving irrationally. But if these polls give you some comfort, and smooth your fevered brow, then who am I to deprive you of the succour?

So the answer to the question as to whether Ashcroft's poll is accurate or not, is to look at a poll of polls, and then to accept that the margins are small and that it is always accepted that in polls there is a margin of error of a few % each way. Whether Ashcroft's poll was principally to establish the voting intentions of people going forward or not, what you cannot dispute, is the conclusion reached that leave was at the time of the poll in the ascendancy. But ultimately, any sensible person accepts that the only true poll, is the actual election result, which in this case showed that the Brexit Party vote was a country mile ahead of the other party's vote and that was under proportional representation.

When Jeff claimed wrongly that the poll showed an increase in the Remain vote and a decline in the Leave vote, not a dicky bird from you to correct him. Now that the figures favour the Leave position, then all of a sudden they are unreliable. Come on then, how about showing the other methodologically more straightforward evidence. Whilst you're about it, if it involves extrapolating anything from the EU Election figures, try to justify the turnout of only around 40%, that EU citizens resident here could vote, that even parties who as a whole vote one way or the other on the EU, have percentages of voters supporting the opposite position and that the whole situation is fluid because the two main parties are both undergoing substantial changes either in leadership or policy and both suffered unprecedented losses to a new party only 5 weeks old who won every region apart from London, which switched away from Labour to the Lib Dims. Jeremy Hunt just botched his chances of the Tory Party leadership, not that he was anywhere near being a front runner anyway. I wouldn't be voting for him in a million years . What will be political suicide for the Tories, would be selecting the two candidates to be put in front of the membership from those who are not solid Brexiteers - like Hunt. If they do, then the Party will consign itself to the political wilderness for a decade or two. That's the Party suicide that they face, but which Hunt appears not to recognise, as he is out of touch with the grass roots, like many of them.

Oh look, the Guardian and the Beeb, the most vocal pro-remain leftie organisations trying their damnedest to make out that legions of EU citizens were denied the vote in the EU elections. Had Cameron been PM still, no doubt he would have asked that an additional 48 hours be added to the deadline, so that they could register their votes. The fact remains that they were allowed the vote in these elections, whereas they were not in the Referendum, so the chances are that even then a fairly substantial number of the 3 million + who were entitled to vote would have voted.

Thanks for accepting that the poll shows that the Leave vote is strengthening, the Remain vote weakening.

An interesting point I've just read, potentially skewing the EU Election voting figures in favour of Remain, one that deosn't appear to have been picked up by the leftie Remoaner media. It seems that where comparisons are being made between the Leave and Remain votes in the 2016 Referendum and the EU Elections last Thursday, it is not a level playing field. In these EU elections, many of the 3 million + citizens of the EU 27 would have been entitled to vote here, whereas they weren't allowed to in the Referendum. OK, that 3 million + will have included children, some will have voted in their own homelands, some might even have voted for the Brexit Party. But the probability is that a still significant number will have voted in the UK to Remain in the EU, thus distorting the figures between Leave and Remain in Remain's favour. On that basis, the vote for The Brexit Party is an even more incredible achievement.

Oh, the irony. See above.

You obviously either didn't read it very carefully, or failed to arrive at the correct conclusion because you didn't understand it. Based on that sample poll, more people would vote to leave now than did in the referendum.

Why don't you make up some lurid fiction along Lady Chatterly's lover lines about her and her Romanian gardener. That would be about the level of debate we've come to expect from you.

I think that you might be misinformed. Call me Dave wanted her to stand as Nancy Mogg, but she insisted in standing under her proper name.

You're usually better informed. Not been following the EU Elections properly? Is an MEP's appearance of importance to you? I didn't think that you were that shallow.

There have been a lot of Remoaner sore losers on here this morning, trying to put a brave face on it. It's all very amusing following the reasoning that attempts to turn a massive defeat for the two main parties into some sort of victory for remain.

Oh Happy day....: smug:

Jeff is the master of the crap analogy and has really excelled himself with this Sky v Virgin one. It's a real tour de force in the crap analogy field. Well done, Jeff.

You really are all over the place in response to a fairly short post suggesting that it is idiotic to label anybody wishing to Leave the EU as being far right extremists. We are treated to your little diatribe giving us the background to the reasons why people voted to leave, touching on the banking crisis and the broad sweep of economic policy by subsequent governments. Apparently, nobody voted to leave the EU because they wanted to regain control of our money, our laws and our borders, or you forgot to consider that in your rant. Noted that you call me sonny. That must make you approaching your century, it being a term usually used by those a generation older. So how old are you? If under 50, it should be me calling you sonny. Regarding the German Cars and Italian Prosecco, as already pointed out, we haven't even begun negotiating any sort of trade deal yet, three years after the vote to leave. As for your remarks on the Cabinet, you'll not get much dissent from me. This is almost certainly the most incapable set of politicians in Parliament that I can remember in my lifetime. In the interests of balance, it must be said that the opposition is also incredibly poor, what with Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell, Thornberry, etc. The House is packed with MPs who have no experience of life outside the Westminster bubble. As far as I can see, The Brexit Party has a very good selection of able candidates who have a wealth of experience in business and commerce. Where would we be now had Ben Habib or even Richard Tice been negotiating for us instead of Ollie Robbins? If you don't wish to considered an idiot, will you retract your ridiculous labelling of leave voters as far right extremists, racists, and gammons?

There was absolutely no reason at all why we couldn't have insisted on discussing our trade arrangements simultaneously with the Withdrawal Agreement. The Maybot was totally spineless in letting Barnier set the agenda as to how the talks would proceed. Had a FTA been negotiated from the start, then the likelihood was that the problems of the Irish border wouldn't have been a problem. I am aghast that you don't realise this. Or perhaps you do realise it, but choose not to accept it.

You're not taking these events of the past couple of days very well, are you, Shurlock? That's always evident when you indulge in the name-calling and the petty insults. This repeating the same mantra and doing the same thing expecting a different result; wasn't that what eventually brought down May with her repeated adherence to the Withdrawal Agreement? And you talk as if you're not like a stuck record yourself with your persistent remoaner claptrap over the past three years. In case it had escaped your attention, under May, we haven't even begun discussing a free trade deal with the EU yet, so German Car manufacturers, Italian Wine producers, French cheese makers haven't needed to bring much pressure to bear yet, so long as no deal was taken off the table by May.

You really are an idiot if you believe that those attempting to deliver on the wishes of the electorate expressed in a referendum are far right extremists. I realise judging by your labelling that it won't resonate with your thought processes, but those MPs are the true democrats, whereas the ones representing the majority of constituencies who voted for Brexit and then refused to implement that decision to leave the EU are the ones worthy of the utmost contempt. Your far right labelling looks even more ridiculous when the Brexit vote encompassed the Tory Shires and the Blue Collar Labour industrial heartlands. Your mention of Chamberlain in this connection is absurd. In any negotiation there needs to be red lines, boundaries over which one party or the other will not cross. Furthermore, even the most inexperienced negotiator knows rule one; be prepared to walk away from a bad deal, and make it very clear that you are prepared to do that. May was so useless that she gave ground on her red lines without the EU conceding on theirs and then having allowed no deal to be taken off the table, we signalled that we were prepared to accept vassal colony status. Good riddance. With luck, the new Tory leader will purge the cabinet of Hammond, Rudd, Gauke and Clark.

Finally the Maybot has recognised that she is far beyond her sell-by date. Good riddance to the worst PM this country has ever had, weak, indecisive, duplicitous, incapable, uncharismatic and totally inept.

You two don't seem to realise that because the two main parties made these vacuous promises and haven't delivered on them, they are getting the kicking they deserve from the electorate.

So what would satisfy you anti-democrats? Best of three? Best of five? We leavers have had to endure over 40 years of EEC/EU membership before being allowed a further referendum, but you Remoaners wanted another one literally months after the last one and before we had even left.