Donatello

Apologies if you've already given your views on it WC, but how do you rate Boufal? Please and thank yous.

Ouch. Do transfers often break down at such advanced stages?

Something of note to me is the number of senior pros/registered players we have on the books for this season so far, 19 (including JWP because he has to be registered now). We've never gone into a Prem season with fewer that 21, so whilst I may be stating the obvious, it's clear, despite the hushed tones emanating from the club, that there's more business to be done - unless Reed intends for us to go into our biggest season (no. of games) with the smallest squad we've had. My presumption would be a new GK, AM, and RB (because that's what Puel wants). Definitely can't see another central midfielder. Definitely can't see another forward. Personally, I'd be fine with that, since it'd allow some opportunities for Hesketh and the like (although I think it's natural to be a little apprehensive about the fitness of JRod and Austin - not that either would be necessarily starting.).

Jokes aside though, this is the last year he'll count as an Under 21 player, meanining if he does go out on loan, he's going to have to come back a player worthy of one of the 25 registration spots we have. Big ask considering he hasn't played a minute of league football for us. Side note, and probably of little value, they had him playing LB in that friendly against DC United U23s :S

(But not for fans with an unsettled disposition when it comes to outgoings, was my point but then perhaps they're not suggesting him)

No goalkeeper then? Also, reference question 4, yeah, first-team...as with Angleman, thanks for highlighting any lack of clarity (sincerely), I'll amend the original post now.

Sorry, I meant first team depth/improvement (although, perhaps you got the gist of that and my brain is simply too clogged with Southampton player names to understand anything other than Southampton player names - most likely). At any rate, I'll clarify in original post. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts though

I don't understand the Berahino push. One good season and he'd be threatening to never play for us again

Try not to quote this. Once is enough of an eyesore Goalkeeper [table=width: 900, class: outer_border] [tr] [td]No.[/td] [td]12/13[/td] [td]13/14[/td] [td]14/15[/td] [td]15/16[/td] [td]16/17[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]1[/td] [td]Arthur Boruc[/td] [td]Arthur Boruc[/td] [td]Frazer Forster[/td] [td]Frazer Forster[/td] [td]Frazer Forster[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]2[/td] [td]Kelvin Davis[/td] [td]Paulo Gazzaniga[/td] [td]Paulo Gazzaniga[/td] [td]Marteen Stekelenburg[/td] [td]Paulo Gazzaniga[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]3[/td] [td]Paulo Gazzaniga[/td] [td]Kelvin Davis[/td] [td]Kelvin Davis[/td] [td]Paulo Gazzaniga[/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]4[/td] [td][/td] [td]Cody Cropper[/td] [td][/td] [td]Kelvin Davis[/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [/table] Central Defenders [table=width: 900, class: outer_border] [tr] [td]No.[/td] [td]12/13[/td] [td]13/14[/td] [td]14/15[/td] [td]15/16[/td] [td]16/17[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]1[/td] [td]Jose Fonte[/td] [td]Dejan Lovren[/td] [td]Toby Alderweireld[/td] [td]Virgil van Dijk[/td] [td]Virgil van Dijk[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]2[/td] [td]Maya Yoshida[/td] [td]Jose Fonte[/td] [td]Jose Fonte[/td] [td]Jose Fonte[/td] [td]Jose Fonte[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]3[/td] [td]Jos Hooiveld[/td] [td]Maya Yoshida[/td] [td]Maya Yoshida[/td] [td]Maya Yoshida[/td] [td]Maya Yoshida[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]4[/td] [td]Vegard Forren[/td] [td]Jos Hooiveld[/td] [td]Florin Gardos[/td] [td]Steven Caulker[/td] [td]Florin Gardos[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]5[/td] [td]Danny Seaborne[/td] [td][/td] [td]Jos Hooiveld[/td] [td]Florin Gardos[/td] [td]Jack Stephens?[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]6[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [td]Jack Stephens[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [/table] Leftbacks [table=width: 900, class: outer_border] [tr] [td]No.[/td] [td]12/13[/td] [td]13/14[/td] [td]14/15[/td] [td]15/16[/td] [td]16/17[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]1[/td] [td]Luke Shaw[/td] [td]Luke Shaw[/td] [td]Ryan Bertrand[/td] [td]Ryan Bertrand[/td] [td]Ryan Bertrand[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]2[/td] [td]Danny Fox[/td] [td]Danny Fox[/td] [td]Matt Targett[/td] [td]Matt Targett[/td] [td]Matt Targett[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]3[/td] [td][/td] [td]Matt Targett[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [/table] Rightbacks [table=width: 870, class: outer_border] [tr] [td]No.[/td] [td]12/13[/td] [td]13/14[/td] [td]14/15[/td] [td]15/16[/td] [td]16/17[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]1[/td] [td]Nathaniel Clyne[/td] [td]Nathaniel Clyne[/td] [td]Nathaniel Clyne[/td] [td]Cedric Soares[/td] [td]Cedric Soares[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]2[/td] [td]Frazer Richardson[/td] [td]Callum Chambers[/td] [td]Jason McCarthy[/td] [td]Cuco Martina[/td] [td]Cuco Martina[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]3[/td] [td]Callum Chambers[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [/table] Central Midfielders [table=width: 900, class: outer_border] [tr] [td]No.[/td] [td]12/13[/td] [td]13/14[/td] [td]14/15[/td] [td]15/16[/td] [td]16/17[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]1[/td] [td]Morgan Schneiderlin[/td] [td]Morgan Schneiderlin[/td] [td]Morgan Schneiderlin[/td] [td]Victor Wanyama[/td] [td]Oriel Romeu[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]2[/td] [td]Jack Cork[/td] [td]Victor Wanyama[/td] [td]Victor Wanyama[/td] [td]Oriel Romeu[/td] [td]Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]3[/td] [td]James Ward Prowse[/td] [td]Jack Cork[/td] [td]James Ward Prowse[/td] [td]Jordy Clasie[/td] [td]Jordy Clasie[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]4[/td] [td]Richard Chaplow[/td] [td]James Ward Prowse[/td] [td]Jack Cork[/td] [td]James Ward Prowse[/td] [td]James Ward Prowse[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]5[/td] [td][/td] [td]Harrison Reed[/td] [td]Harrison Reed[/td] [td]Harrison Reed[/td] [td]Harrison Reed?[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]6[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [td]Dominic Gape[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]7[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [td]Jake Flannigan[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]8[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [td]Sadir Taider[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [/table] Advanced Midfielders [table=width: 900, class: outer_border] [tr] [td]No.[/td] [td]12/13[/td] [td]13/14[/td] [td]14/15[/td] [td]15/16[/td] [td]16/17[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]1[/td] [td]Steven Davis[/td] [td]Steven Davis[/td] [td]Steven Davis[/td] [td]Steven Davis[/td] [td]Steven Davis[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]2[/td] [td]Adam Lallana[/td] [td]Adam Lallana[/td] [td]Dusan Tadic[/td] [td]Dusan Tadic[/td] [td]Dusan Tadic[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]3[/td] [td]Gaston Ramirez[/td] [td]Gaston Ramirez[/td] [td]Sadio Mane[/td] [td]Sadio Mane[/td] [td]Nathan Redmond[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]4[/td] [td]Jason Puncheon[/td] [td]Guly[/td] [td]Eljero Elia[/td] [td]Juanmi[/td] [td]Jake Hesketh?[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]5[/td] [td]Guly[/td] [td]Lloyd Isgrove[/td] [td]Filip Djuricic[/td] [td]Gaston Ramirez[/td] [td]Lloyd Isgrove?[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]6[/td] [td]Steve De Ridder[/td] [td][/td] [td]Jake Hesketh[/td] [td]Olufela Olomola[/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]7[/td] [td]Ben Reeves[/td] [td][/td] [td]Gaston Ramirez[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]8[/td] [td]Lloyd Isgrove[/td] [td][/td] [td]Lloyd Isgrove[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]9[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [td]Sam McQueen[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [/table] Forwards [table=width: 900, class: outer_border] [tr] [td]No.[/td] [td]12/13[/td] [td]13/14[/td] [td]14/15[/td] [td]15/16[/td] [td]16/17[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]1[/td] [td]Rickie Lambert[/td] [td]Rickie Lambert[/td] [td]Graziano Pelle[/td] [td]Graziano Pelle[/td] [td]Shane Long[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]2[/td] [td]Jay Rodriguez[/td] [td]Jay Rodriguez[/td] [td]Shane Long[/td] [td]Shane Long[/td] [td]Charlie Austin[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]3[/td] [td]Emmanuel Mayuka[/td] [td]Dani Osvaldo[/td] [td]Jay Rodriguez[/td] [td]Jay Rodriguez[/td] [td]Jay Rodriguez[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]4[/td] [td]Billy Sharp[/td] [td]Sam Gallagher[/td] [td]Emmanuel Mayuka[/td] [td]Charlie Austin[/td] [td]Ryan Seager?[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]5[/td] [td]Tadanari Lee[/td] [td]Emmanuel Mayuka[/td] [td]Ryan Seager[/td] [td]Ryan Seager[/td] [td]Sam Gallagher?[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]6[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [td]Sam Gallagher[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [/table] [table=width: 900, class: grid] [tr] [td]Season[/td] [td]12/13[/td] [td]13/14[/td] [td]14/15[/td] [td]15/16[/td] [td]16/17[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Players Used Total[/td] [td]30[/td] [td]29[/td] [td]36[/td] [td]29[/td] [td]n/a[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Senior Pros[/td] [td]25[/td] [td]21[/td] [td]24[/td] [td]24[/td] [td]19 (so far)[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Academy Players[/td] [td]5[/td] [td]8[/td] [td]12[/td] [td]5[/td] [td]n/a[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Academy in Matchday Squad[/td] [td]68[/td] [td]156[/td] [td]87[/td] [td]65[/td] [td]n/a[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Academy Appearances[/td] [td]43[/td] [td]113[/td] [td]46[/td] [td]48[/td] [td]n/a[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Academy Starts[/td] [td]26[/td] [td]72[/td] [td]25[/td] [td]27[/td] [td]n/a[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Academy Minutes[/td] [td]2459[/td] [td]6622[/td] [td]2225[/td] [td]2611[/td] [td]n/a[/td] [/tr] [/table] Like a previous thread of mine, I defined a youth academy player as a player under the age of 21 at the first game of each respective season, i.e. Lallana never counts towards figures, and as of this season, JWP will no longer count towards figures. However, I’ve also factored in whether a player has yet to establish themselves in the first team (see Reed, Stephens, and Isgrove for the 16/17 season). Every player in the depth chart featured in the matchday squad at least once, save for two, but I believe those two (JRod and Gardos) were in the reckoning for those seasons, but suffered setbacks, hence inclusion. Anyway, they’re in italics, as are a few others who have been included for making minimal matchday appearances, but under specific circumstances (Gaston’s loan move to Hull, Taider falling off the face of the Earth, etc). Finally, there’s nalt too scientific about the ordering of the depth chart. Don’t get your knickers in a twist. For example, advanced midfielder field, I mimicked how I’d presented defenders, i.e. central (Davis), left (Tadic), right (Mane)...I’m not venerating, although I am thereafter.

Warning, this’ll be cumbersome. There’s a lot of fan discussion about incoming players (i.e. a Pelle replacement, a Mane replacement, a Wanyama replacement), versus the image originating from the club and various news outlets (i.e. Pelle’s been replaced, Redmond is Mane’s replacement(?), Puel wants a RB), versus the theory that the club are merely portraying a modest transfer front in order to prevent price escalation, versus the theory we’re trying to reestablish(?) the “Academy Pathway” to the first team (a strike against Koeman mooted around Jan ‘16, purportedly), and that Puel is a manager with an inclination towards developing academy prospects. So I thought it pertinent to create a thread to centralise discussion about the club’s philosophy where academy players are concerned, versus transfer policy. The second post of this thread will contain a depth chart of the squad for each of our five Prem seasons, to demonstrate how congested the pathway has or hasn’t been in each previous season, and how congested the pathway is or isn’t currently. Below that will be a chart detailing academy exposure to the first team on matchday (purely for those interested, rather than making any point), i.e. the following criteria, A) how many individual academy players made the matchday squad during the season, B) how many times were those players represented in the matchday squad in total, C) the number of times an academy player made an appearance, D) the number of times an academy player started a match, and E) the number of minutes on field accrued by academy players. To summarise, I’m basically playing Devil’s Advocate with the following Qs, 1 - Would you be happy with the perception of the club being that of an academy club? 2 - Would you accept an attitude of almost positive discrimination towards youth to achieve this? 3 - Looking at the first team depth chart for 16/17, where do you think we need to improve and/or add depth? Can the current academy group provide said depth? Are they/some good enough? 4 - Do you see any academy players having breakthrough years in the first team? If so, who? By "breakthrough", I'm not necessarily talking Shaw-esque. Harry Reed's 29 matchday squad/9 appearances/5 starts in 14/15 comes to mind. I’ll edit this post as people see fit/point out errors/take issue with my ‘methodology’. There will undoubtedly be mistakes, such is the extent to which I’ve edited things back and forth to little effect (.e.g my futile attempts to solve the alignment issue with the depth chart). As always, keep it civil Or f*ck off! Development Squad (OS) (reference question 4) Harry Lewis (GK), Jordan Turnbull (CB), Jack Stephens (CB), Bevis Mugabi (CB), Jason McCarthy (RB/CB), Will Wood (LB/CB), Josh Debayo (LB/CB), Ollie Cook (CB), Richard Bakary (RB), Alfie Jones (CM/CB), Dominic Gape (CM), Jake Flannigan (CM/RB), Jake Hesketh (CM), Armani Little (CM), Josh Sims (AM), Sam McQueen (AM), Harley Willard (AM), Ryan Seager (F), Marcus Barnes (F), Olufela Olomola (F). Plus Sam Gallagher (F) and Lloyd Isgrove (AM), as far as I'm concerned.

Meow!

Seconded. I'd prefer to see us spending some money internally, rather than pouring it into the accounts of other clubs for a couple of extra points a year. But then I guess a happy medium can be struck.

Can't say I've ever seen that being a possibility.

Niiiiiiice (although I'll admit to not having seen him play...well, I probably have, but I simply can't remember). Looks like good stock though.

To be fair, they do (to fans) until they prove otherwise. JRod has pretty much been out of the firing line for two years now.

I'm inclined to agree. I mean, I think we need to replace Pelle, but there's a certain hype around Premier League financial wealth at the moment, and spouting off about how we're going to spend this and that, whilst reassuring to fans, sends the wrong message to clubs with players we wish to target.

Comparable with Wenger, and not something I personally noticed. Non issue x 1000.

Budgeting 'for' 11th, which is about where are our revenue lies I.e. being a club who has gone through administration, and has subsequently decided to be financially prudent

Exactly

If we have sold for £30m then it's going to be one of our transfers which I'm *really* annoyed about (unless he has a release clause, obviously). As Dig Dig has mentioned, it's *so* early in the window, and he clearly has many admirers. I can stomach selling to Liverpool (again), but not if we're not getting an inflated price (which even then would be somewhat 'wasted' unless the replacement's fee and wages are already lined up). Who's sanctioning the deals in these/this situation? Ralf? Les? If it is Les (it's probably a combination), and as much as I value his contribution, I'd like to see one of his typically optimistic interviews now, see how he explains all of this. I simply don't understand why the club, wanting £40, and having been offered £30m, wouldn't demand that the fee be settled at £35m. How the *Hell* did we end up climbing down? (if we did)

Where have you sourced that from? The *club* wage bill was ~£72m last season (14-15), so unless we paid backroom staff ~£17m(!), that's quite an underestimate. And that's without discounting the 15-16 totals being a prediction.

Yes, I believe anything. (Serious answer - news on the BBC is, generally speaking, a reasonable indicator, they don't tend to post prematurely (there will be exceptions of course)).

Understood/My bad

I don't really care for Boris Johnson, but a statement on the side of a bus is hardly a promise. We all know the net figure isn't remotely close to £350m of course, and so it was disingenuous/annoying/manipulative (though it falls short of lying). I can't accept that as a "promise" to spend £350m extra on the NHS though. What else? You can ask, sure, but I trust you won't then extrapolate that answer and apply it to 17.4 million people. At any rate, 'national identity', who knows and/or cares, it's not important to me (and you're asking *me*). "Taking back control", the ability for a nation to be exclusively responsible for its own policy - I'd have thought that was a fairly standard concept, even if you don't agree with it/think it necessary.

I'm sure you know this is untrue, but failing that, Scotland, NI, and London 'propped' up the Remain vote. Wales and England voted to leave. Edit: Ooops, should have read the thread, WC has made the point.