sadoldgit

You really don’t get it do you? If two Afro-Americans call each other by the n word as a greeting, who exactly are they offending? Do you really believe that people get upset because some Spurs fans identify as Yiddish? If you asked a Pakistani where he was from and he said he was a Paki would it offend you? It is not the word, it is the context in which the word is used.

I agree that they should all go through a judicial process, where ever that may be. I have never said that this person is innocent victim but neither do we have any hard evidence that she was a combatant. Some people might think that just being Muslim makes you automatically guilty of a major crime in these circumstances. She claims to have been nothing more than a housewife. If true is that a crime? If there is more to that it will be discovered through official channels and she will be dealt with through those channels. It would appear that some people, and mostly of a far right persuasion, cannot see a difference between hardened religious extremists and young gullible people who get sucked in and end up well out of their depth. Let’s not pretend that a 15 year old who liked the idea of going to Syria because she liked the idea of raising a family there because the video looked nice and “they look after you” was some kind of hardened Jihadist when she went. Frankly I would be a lot more concerned about her husband. Still, the likes of Begum are a blessing to the Yaxley-Lennon brigade.

People can call themselves what they like no matter whether you or I like it or think it is ok. I would assume that they were using the term as an insult. If they called themselves the Bradford or Brighton army and opposing fans called them Pakis or Faggots then that would be seen as hateful. It really isn’t that difficult to draw a distinction. As for the difference between the Jewish connection between Tottenham and Arsenal, Tottenham’s link with the Jewish community in North London has been much more marked over the years including having had 3 Jewish chairmen in recent years. The argument that opposing fans only make anti-Semitic chants because Spurs fans call themselves the Yid Army doesn’t wash. Do Manchester United call themselves the Plane Crash Army? Even if they did, for the reasons stated it is all about context.

I often wonderful if you are being deliberately obtuse just for the sake of an argument Jeff? Go back and read my post again. Where do I mention rape? For the sake of clarity, my point is that suseptical people are often targeted by people for their own nefarious purposes. As I said, there is a strong suggestion that this person was groomed from an early age. Certainly her family did not encourage her to go to Syria. It is a rational move for a child who is barely a teenager to head off to a war zone to raise a family? If it is the case that she was targeted and groomed from an early age, is it right to hold her wholly responsible for her actions? And before you choose to misinterpret me again, I am not suggesting that she does not face the justice system should she ever return to the UK. All people are liable to the same system no matter what their religious background or crime, don’t you agree? Which makes it all the more strange that we have stripped mothers and supposed non combatants of their UK citizenship but let men and possible terrorists back in.

It’s all about context though. I doesn’t really matter that only about 5% of them are actually Jewish. They are identifying with the term, not using it as a racial insult. In the same way that two people of colour (or whatever the pc term is now) call each other by the n word. They are not using it as a hateful slur. If you wanted to prosecute the Spurs supporters for a “hate crime” when chanting “Yid army” you would have to prove that they are using it as an insult whereas they clearly aren’t. Any references to gassing or Hitler are clearly meant as an insult and are dealt with differently because of the different context. To say that Spurs supporters bring this upon themselves isn’t the point. Calling themselves by a name that identifies with a certain religion does not then give others the right to abuse them using racial hate terms. We can talk about plane crashes all day long without offending anyone but as we know, there is a certain plane crash which is used as an insult towards Manchester United and in that context falls into the hate crime category. I don’t know if there is any truth in the rumour on the terraces that Victoria Beckham enjoys a spot of an al, but the context in which it is used is not a celebration of a celebrity’s sexual preference, it is meant as an insult and a wind up. There are a number of interesting articles about the Tottenham dilemma about their fans singing “Yid Army” and they do struggle because the fans are obviously not insulting themselves. This is not about what words mean, it is about how they are used.

That’s the point though John. They can do it because they are using it in a different way. I have some gay friends who are quite happy to call each other by terms that are clearly homophobic if used by straight people against them. Their argument is that they are being ironic and are turning negatives into positives. By calling themselves the Yid Army Spurs fans are taking ownership of the name on their own terms. The N word is used as a sign of brotherhood when used between each other whereas a white person using that term can only do so from a racist perspective because they don’t have the same background.

Her murder cult? You make her sound like Pol Pot. Do we know that she was involved in violent acts. If it is true that she was no more than a housewife is that now a criminal offence? As for being responsible for her actions, of course she is. But most people understand that at 15 you often don’t make the best decisions and our society and legal system make provision for that. This place kicked off about the grooming gangs but I don’t remember those people blaming the girls for there part in the activities. There is a suggestion that Begum and her friends had been groomed from an early age. If you have seen any of the interviews she comes across as very gullible and suseptical. I don’t see her as a danger to society, more as a danger to herself. Within a few days of arriving she was looking for a husband and married someone she barely knew. I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t say that any of her decisions were those of a mature, rational person.

Why should football be exempt to standards of behaviour not tolerated elsewhere. Would the n word would be acceptable when directed towards players just because it is football? Of course not. There is a difference to chanting and basic racial abuse.

The Spurs fans can call themselves what they like without expecting anti-Semitic abuse. It’s like saying that Jews brought the holocaust on themselves for being Jewish. Sadly there are still some buckle draggers who think it is ok to make reference to gassing or Hitler. On the upside fewer people are prepared to accept this behaviour and these morons are being called out. Name and shame these morons. Let’s make it clear that these actions are not acceptable in today’s society.

What a massive result that was! Adrian Durham on Talksport predicted 2-1 yesterday. I hope he had a few bob on it.

Shamima Begum

Sadly it appears that whilst Javid has been busy sucking up to the far right, the opportunity to save an innocent child’s life has been lost. Stamina Begum’s three week old baby as apparantly died of pneumonia. By his own admission the child was a British subject but he was quiet happy to leave the baby to suffer in a miserable environment where other children are dying every day. Perhaps the only positive to come out of this sorry tale is that it might deter more young girls from following in Begum’s footsteps but no matter of what you think of this misguided young women, at just 19 years old she has already had to pay a very high price for her life choices.

Mostly one way traffic. Did we string more than two passes together? Great result but how did we win that?

So Donald has made 9,014 false or misleading claims over 773 days. 12 a day. You have to admire the man’s consistency and application.

It will if they realise that they will be quickly caught, brought to justice and spend a long time behind bars. When I was younger you saw plenty of police out and about. Now you rarely see any. More police on the beat. More stop and search. Longer sentences for carrying knives and knife crime. Increasing the chances of being caught and increasing sentencing will do a lot more than employing a "Knife Tzar."

May misses the point once again. The lack of a proper decent police presence in the community means that there are those out there who think they can do things like this and get away scot free. The cuts to the Criminal Justice System thanks to the years of austerity have brought us to this. If it were just down to drugs and gangs that would be one thing, but it is not. We need a stronger, more robust CJS and these scumbags need to know that they will be caught and put away for a very long time.

If we had beaten plenty of other teams the table would look very different. Cardiff wasn’t our problem, our often indifferent form is.

But she seems to have you summed up and has managed to get hypo to make a tw at of himself too, so fair play to her!

So let’s just make an assumption that we weren’t seriously looking shall we? Always better to go with a negative if there is any doubt, especially if it has anything to do with the running of SFC. Seriously, why do people find the need to constantly run the club down? Probably just as well they don’t support Spurs, they would be suicidal this morning. Pretty much on every thread there are posters looking for excuses to slag off the owner/board and most of the time based on negative assumptions rather than facts. There is every chance that we would have eventually been in. Relegation scrap under Markus if he had lived longer. Just as well he passed before the pitch fork brigade set on him (although it hasn’t prevented the open season on his daughter).

So despite the usual suspects on here saying we didn’t try to sign anyone in January, according to his agent we were in for Almiron along with Newcastle and Arsenal.

Which is my point, so why have a pop at me?

You really are a little ray of sunshine aren’t you?

Why would I go off on one? When I was small I was spoon fed Christianity as the one and only religion. Fortunately my parents didn’t force me to stay in Sunday School when I said I didn’t want to go anymore but I, like many of my generation have been brainwashed from an early age. I know a few middle age born again Christians who have got back into the whole God thing when you would hope that they would be old enough to know better. The point is that we all have filters. You for example saw Pelle as crap footballer whereas most people who saw him play thought he was pretty good. Some people grow up with a religious background and pick up on the peaceful message and live their lives accordingly. Some hear a different message and go down a different path. As we have been trying to point out to the Islamophobes on here, Islam is no different to other religions in this respect. There are extreme factions in all religions and in most societies. Some people can see that these issues are a part of their own society and some, the Tommy Robinson Yaxley-Lennons of this world, see them as something separate who need to be removed from our island. In this particular instance this young woman grew up within a certain religion and it sounds very much like she was groomed and fed a distorted version of what her peers believed in. A bit like you sitting next to a kid at St Mary’s week after week saying see that big bloke with the greasy hair up front, he’s rubbish he is. A suseptical kid will eventually see it your way and grow up believing that Pelle is rubbish. She doesn’t sound terribly bright and seems to have accepted a number of things about ISIS without question. On beheadings she was told Islam was ok with it so that was fine. If you stripped citizenship from every thick, gullible person half of this forum would be stateless. You ask the question earlier was she a combatant? I don’t know where you got that suggestion from other than your own deep seated prejudice because from what I have read she was nothing more than a housewife. Maybe you know different? If she is guilty of any crime she needs to go through the normal process and be dealt with accordingly. If she hasn’t and wishes to return to her country and her family, reject extremism and embrace the values of our society, I would expect any half decent human being to be willing to give her a second chance. You provide me with evidence that she has been chopping people’s heads off and I will quite happily change my mind.

She is a British citizen because she meets the official criteria. Whatever crimes she is guilty of, she is guilty as a British citizen. Stripping her of her citizenship defies International Law. Her citizenship should not be the issue here. Her conduct should. I assume that most of us on this thread are British citizens. Whatever crimes we may commit, we remain as British citizens. It is no ones right to deny anyone their official heritage. This whole episode is an unecessary sideshow to what is the main problem, radicalisation and support for extremist factions. This person and her actions are very much our problem and we need to deal with it.