sadoldgit

To me this is one of Eastwood's best ever movies. Not only not what you would expect from him but an excellent movie all round.

Does that mean that have sold an extra shirt?

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/resources/images/3459487.jpg?type=article-full Apparently she liked the flowers but not the Bovril!

Quality yesterday. Do people still want Boruc back?

Gerrard has been a quality player and in his prime would have walked into most people's best Prem side of all time. Like Le Tissier, he has also been a one club man and could have gone elsewhere if he had chosen too but stayed loyal to his club. He may not be the player he was but any rational football supporter would have wanted Gerrard in their side when he was at his best. He will get a lot of media coverage and it is well deserved.

Ronald is way to cool to wear a coat like that!

Wheel status???

Signing Koeman.

One of the big problems we face is religious extremism and fundamentalism. A Christian extremist can be just as dangerous as any other and there are an awful lot of them in the States.

I have had a couple of holidays in Turkey and have kept in touch with many of the Turks I met and they would love to have us back. Not all of the Brits who go abroad get drunk and make ar*ses of themselves. What North America doesn't have is any history worth talking about going back more than a couple of hundred years which is why some of them venture to Europe etc for some older culture.

In the 1830s, a story began to circulate in the US press that German had almost became the official language of the newly founded US—the motion apparently defeated by only one vote. Actually, to this day, America does not have an official language—not even English. The story— now known as the Muehlenberg legend—was mostly fabrication, but it did have a kernel of truth.

What if this forum didn't exist? You would have to go out and find people to p*ss off instead of staying in the warm and doing it. What if we had won the American War of Independence? What if my auntie had balls?

Yes.

Are you and Sour Mash one in the same person? In fact I think both of you are C B Fry. Read the article again.

Why so pedantic? My point was it could have been which is borne out in the article. Lighten up mate, it is New Year's Eve!

As are a great many of the population. We Brits are also mostly a bunch of mongrels.

Marcus

Are you saying that we cant form an opinion about America and Americans because we don't know them all? Surely we base our perceptions on what we think we know? I agree that there are many smart and well informed Americans. The issue with America is that it is the most powerful nation on the planet at the moment and their foreign policies affect us all - for better or worse. I don't know if there is any truth in the rumour that George W Bush did not have a passport at the time he was elected as President but if so I find it more than worrying that the man with his finger on the button hadn't been out of his own back yard. I would also argue that for such a large and powerful nation, they have managed to elect some very poor people to lead them. It must bother you that the role call of Presidents includes the like of Regan and Bush as well as Lincoln and Kennedy?

Bloody hell, is that all? Basically says you are now playing for us and this is what we will pay you. My contract with the Civil Service looks like War & Peace in comparison!

Not sure what your point is?

In the 1830s, a story began to circulate in the US press that German had almost became the official language of the newly founded US—the motion apparently defeated by only one vote. Actually, to this day, America does not have an official language—not even English. The story— now known as the Muehlenberg legend—was mostly fabrication, but it did have a kernel of truth. In 1794 a group of German-speaking immigrants petitioned the House of Representatives to have laws and regulations published in both English and German to facilitate integration and political participation. It was this request that was rejected 42 to 41. Some say that ironically, the decisive vote was cast by Fredrik Augustus Muhlenberg, the first German-American Speaker of the House—though records show that he diplomatically abstained. But what if there was an official language, and what if back in 1795 the US had said wir sprechen Deutsch? The dealings of the young American republic with Europe during the first half of the 19th century were shaped mainly by negotiating their position vis-à-vis France and in relation to Britain. Prussia had a trade agreements with the US but that was about it and the Habsburg empire was looking east rather than west. There was no real German dimension to the Louisiana Purchase nor to the War of 1812—how could there have been, when Germany was not even a unified state yet? In fact, during the first half of the 19th century, by speaking German, America would probably have changed the history of central Europe more drastically than its own development at that time. After all, in the movement for unity and liberalisation, sparked by the Napoleonic Wars and culminating in the 1848 revolutions, language was a crucial ingredient for the German lands. A German-speaking republic across the sea could have provided a powerful point of reference in political debates as well as in questions of national identity. Back in America tensions were mounting over slavery and the rift between north and south was growing deeper around the middle of the century. Had German been the official language, the large German communities of the midwest could have turned their weight into political presence and a third regional block might have diffused the situation. Furthermore, particularly in Missouri and Kansas, the strong anti-slavery sentiment among German immigrants could have made a difference during the late 1850s. These areas saw the prelude to the Civil War with violence erupting over the question of whether slavery should be allowed in states that newly joined the union. But German immigrants were not able to make their voices heard nationally—partly because their language barriers limited them to local politics. After the Civil War and with German unification in 1871, the two nations eyed each other across the Atlantic with a mixture of rivalry and mutual fascination as they both strove to carve out their position on the world stage against the mighty British empire. However, it is unlikely that a common language would have softened this competition. The 20th century saw the German language become closely linked to cruelty. This started in the First World War and the US passed legislation to ban German classes from schools and German music from concert halls. The anti-German sentiment was so strong at this time that dachshunds were stoned in the streets of New York. Therefore, had German been America’s national language, it might well have been abolished in 1917. On the other hand, Germany’s propaganda effort to keep America neutral could have been more effective had it been accessible to the masses. Contemporaries complained about what they saw as an unjust advantage for British propaganda due to language. Had the US stayed out of the Great War, the effect on developments in Europe and the world throughout the 20th century and beyond would have been enormous. Today, 50m Americans claim German descent. Sometimes there is German heritage in what seems most American. Walt Disney draws heavily on German fairytales and numerous US-state hymns use German melodies. The pretzel and the hot dog and the hamburger are German imports, as are Santa Claus and the Christmas tree. Nineteenth-century German immigrants brought gymnastics clubs, kindergartens and the PhD. When Jewish-Germans and other German emigrants were forced out of their country during the Second World War, they too left their mark on American culture and society. Philosophers of language argue that our mother tongue affects the way we see and understand the world. Would American pragmatism have worked in German? What about the particularities in the Anglo-American interpretation of freedom, liberty, republicanism or even culture? Could the world deal with a largely German-speaking movie and music business? And finally, could the “awful German language” (Mark Twain) ever be a lingua franca like English is today? Language has always been a key feature of German nationalism and imperialism. If the US had chosen German as their official language, from early on, it would have ideologically strengthened Germany’s position in Europe—for better or worse.

Most of the people I know (and I appreciate it is a small sample) have been to the Americas, Australia and Asia as well as many countries from Europe. When I was last in America I was better travelled in America than many of the Americans I met let alone the rest of the world. There is an old saying, travel broadens the mind.

Maybe a case of too much too quickly, although as it was colonised by millions of Europeans maybe we have something to answer for? On another note, apparently the vote was very close as to whether the national language of the US would be English or German. Perhaps we would be living in a very different world now if the vote had been for German!!!

I was indeed but appreciate that with your experience Verbal it was not in the best taste. I used to know people who worked in a kiosk at South Hampstead tube and would regularly tell me tales of how some poor people had to clear up the mess after a track suicide. I also went to school with someone who climbed over the train roof on a BR service only to be hit by a bridge. His friends ran back up the track from the next station and what they found was not pretty.