ScepticalStan

Liverpool had 68% possession as the away team. That's more than double what ours was. Sitting back and doing them on the counter worked perfectly (and as you say, could well have resulted in more goals - particularly with Cedric on the overlap). http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38504049

You know, funnily enough, sitting back and hitting them on the counter-attack is exactly what every single team that's beaten them this season has done to great effect (including ourselves, twice). We've also kept three clean sheets against them. Our best bet probably is to literally just do the same thing. It is their main weakness after all.

First things first, we're 3 points off 16th as well, so nothing can be made of the league position results-wise. It is, as you say, all about the... What's improving? What's getting better? Which players have really taken forward steps in their career development apart from Stephens and Ward-Prowse? How much progress have we made with developing and integrating the combined £28Mn-worth of supposed talent in Hojbjerg and Boufal in our team? What formations or tactical systems/plans have we worked on throughout the season that we can quickly put into practice during the game? Have we added any strings to our bow apart from our standard 4-3-3 with Davis/Romeu/JWP in midfield? The past three fixtures have been exactly the same as the first few matches under Puel. We can barely play a one-two let alone string a move together going forward against the weaker clubs at home, and we get absolutely bodied by the big clubs who barely need to break sweat against us. Meanwhile, the fans aren't happy, the players aren't happy or motivated, the team looks uncoordinated and predictable. I see nothing to be excited about for next season whatsoever. Sure, we'll pick up enough points to stay up - but I can't even see the beginnings of an upward trajectory under Puel. It really feels like the people still defending him at this point are those who want to protect their own personal reputation as being level-headed and sensible. Let's see where we end up at the end of the season I guess, because whether we're 9th or 15th its quite clear that until our league position is certain, we're forever going to be told that we're only "X-single-digit-number-of-points-off-8th" between now and the end of the season.

Question for those who want to see him stay: In what areas have we improved since our first few games of the season? Our season began with us scraping and stumbling through home games against Watford and Sunderland much like today, along with us being comfortably handled by Man United, much like against Chelsea and City. Just nothing has changed. We're still liable to drop points against weaker teams at home whilst looking uncoordinated, uncreative, toothless and boring. We still don't seem to be getting any closer to so much as making a nuisance of ourselves against the big boys. We haven't seen players like Boufal improve and be integrated into the team the way Mané did in his first season under Koeman. What's getting better? What gives you cause for optimism for next year? Its not just the results or the league position. I'm just seeing no progress at all.

I'm sure you'd be similarly critical if Puel got a point in a match where we were playing away to odds-on favoruites

This. Its like Pardew at Palace last season - the cup final papered over all their cracks and guess what? It spilled into this season and put a team full of internationals in jeopardy of relegation when, as proven by their recent results, they shouldn't ever have been in any danger whatoever. There are undoubtedly plenty of mongs who took an instant dislike to Puel from the word go, but just because they were unjustified calling for him to be sacked then, doesn't mean they're wrong calling for his head now. I've spent most of fhe season saying 'give him time', but the reality is that he has now been given time. Today was exactly the same as the Be'er Sheva game. Toothless. No urgency. Soft in the challenge and barely able to string a one-two together let alone create chances - whilst looking pretty vulnerable to the counter attack to boot. I don't want to call for anyone to lose their job but I've just seen no progress throughout the season whatsoever.

Not totally sure that they're playing particularly great football so much as being very pragmatic and smart about the way they go about things; targeting the fixtures that they're really looking to pick up points in, whilst squeezing as many points out of their matches as they can by bus-parking when they need to, and then really going for it in certain games that they've obviously targeted for points (the other week at home to Watford being a great example, especially as they played 10 vs 11). Still, whilst they've been getting great results at home, they've still folded away to Arsenal, City and Everton without much more of a fight than they would have under Phelan. Anyway, from the oppositions point of view, a fixture like Southampton away is kind of an interesting one as we sit between the two extremes of being a borderline impossible game barely worth chasing and a crucial home game against easy opposition. Given that their next matches are Sunderland at home and Palace away, they won't necessarily be desperate enough to try and play an open game against us with potentially winnable matches still to come. My guess is that they'll play what I call "Plan A - Plan B" away game (that's my name for it anyway - you may call it something different but I'm sure you know what I mean), where you sit back going for the 0-0 if you can get it, but have a series of pre-prepared plans of attack if you do go behind (things like trying to win set-pieces/suddenly going really direct with the long ball and a target-man/a predetermined set of attacking substitutions you've got up your sleeve etc.) to try and nick an equaliser. In the event you do get an equaliser, then you go straight back into your defensive shell. This kind of strategy seemed to be what they attempted last week against Stoke. They did almost pull it off as well, but obviously Stoke re-took the lead etc. Either way, its the kind of savvy strategy that Marco Silva seems to have drilled into them - and I expect we'll see more of the same against us. Still, it'll be interesting to see how we get on against that kind of opponent as it has been a while, particularly with Gabbiadini - who's games so far against West Ham, Sunderland, United, Watford, Spurs, City and Chelsea were all really open.

The three teams that have learned to man mark him have been Spurs, City and now Chelsea. Lets see how he gets on against the likes of Hull City at home before we rush to conclusions

We're fine. Be staggered if we even needed another point, let alone needed one and didn't get it.

Its a fair question. I'm wracking my brains and I can't think of any possible reason to dislike Spurs aside from that, so, yeah, guess that must be it.

This is a very fair point. I never want to see Saints lose but, to give one example, laughing at the irate seething at us on Spurs' messageboards after we lost to Leicester last season massively softened the blow.

Yup. For both goals. The only reason you'd never really describe them as an error is that they never have a chance to go under his dive because he never actually manages to dive that far.

My money is on those Buddhists. Trouble everywhere they go

I'm gagging for a ticket as well so give me a shout if you're looking for a buyer

agree. awful. total embarrassment

This is where a strong manager can make all the difference. In his first season, Mane was doing exactly the same thing and it was utterly enraging; beating players more than once, trying ridiculous step-overs that fooled no-one and just slowed himself down, and being hopeless when it came to his end product. Throughout his time under Koeman, he began to cut the bull**** out of his game, beat players with simple pace and strength where he had the chance, and play two-touch football when he didn't. Under Klopp he's kicked on even more. At the moment I feel like something has to give. I don't see Puel having the personality to really handle Boufal and get the best out of him, and if we don't, I'm convinced someone else will.

You said the same thing about Mane. If it were up to you, Schneiderlin would have been sold for a sixpence and we'd still be down in League 1 with Wotton and Hammond as our midfield pairing.

Like our super-duper not-at-all-League 1 level goalkeeper?

Thing is, a better manager could get more out of him. Koeman was in Mané's ear every single game- you'd hear "Shhhadio! Shaaaadio!" coming from the touchline

They're simply way better than us. If youre happy with the likes of Long and Davis and JWP and Redmond and so on, then you'll have to be happy with this.

It wouldn't solve everything but it would certainly work for plenty of situations. At the very least it would give accountability. If the ref, having seen the video would have changed his mind then it certainly would have worked.

He's improved an awful lot this season to be fair - and credit to him for bulking up because he's evidently put plenty of work in behind the scenes.

Weak tackle from Davis costs Cedric a yellow on the cover

We have such an uncreative midfield

lol there's plenty you say I disagree with but on this you're bang on the money