dune Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 On the 5th December we were 9 points off the playoffs. Today we are 11 points off the playoffs. You can say what you like but the table doesn't lie and Pardew has not performed over the past 4 months. To be worse off now than we were back in December is not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Is it not worth noting that this is the hardest league one has been for 3/4 years? The league doesn't lie, etc. Just look at points totals for the last couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 On the 5th December we were 9 points off the playoffs. Today we are 11 points off the playoffs. You can say what you like but the table doesn't lie and Pardew has not performed over the past 4 months. To be worse off now than we were back in December is not good enough. And Millwall had 29 points from 20 games. Means they've taken 42 from 18, that's going some. If you want a yard stick you should compare us to Millwall, the comparison does not flatter us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 2 April, 2010 Author Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Is it not worth noting that this is the hardest league one has been for 3/4 years? The league doesn't lie, etc. Just look at points totals for the last couple of years. What the table illustrates is that no progress has been made over the period highlighted. FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 What the table illustrates is that no progress has been made over the period highlighted. FACT. Progress has been made but not consistently enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Yeah, lets f@ck him off and get.....oh....ah....um....?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Yeah, lets f@ck him off and get.....oh....ah....um....?? Kenny Jackett ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 What the table illustrates is that no progress has been made over the period highlighted. FACT. It's not a fact, it's your OPINION and how YOU quantify progress. You seem to have such a narrow and simplistic view on football it really is becoming hard to take anything you are saying seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 2 April, 2010 Author Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Yeah, lets f@ck him off and get.....oh....ah....um....?? So i take it your are satisfied with our decline over the last 4 months? Because we are worse off than we were in december in terms of points so it is a decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 2 April, 2010 Author Share Posted 2 April, 2010 It's not a fact, it's your OPINION and how YOU quantify progress. You seem to have such a narrow and simplistic view on football it really is becoming hard to take anything you are saying seriously. It is fact. You might not like the truth but the results we have got since December have not progressed us. It's alright for you and others to give excuses about the pre season and the 10 point penalty - all valid, but i'm giving the REAL statistics for a period when these excuses stopped washing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 (edited) On the 5th December we were 9 points off the playoffs. Today we are 11 points off the playoffs. You can say what you like but the table doesn't lie and Pardew has not performed over the past 4 months. To be worse off now than we were back in December is not good enough. We are noe 12 points from the Playoffs as Colchester are drawing so we are getting worse even though we are not playing:confused: But now we are only 11 Points Off with a game in hand which could mean we are going to be 8 points from the play offs Edited 2 April, 2010 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 So i take it your are satisfied with our decline over the last 4 months? Because we are worse off than we were in december in terms of points so it is a decline. Too many factors to take into consideration, I accept we were sh1te over that period, were we over achieving by getting to that position ? was it due to the poor form of others ? Of course I would like the play offs to be more than just a mathematical possibility for us but to be in with a shout, with a trophy already in the cabinet is good enough for me this season based on what my expectation was pre season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 2 April, 2010 Author Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Too many factors to take into consideration, I accept we were sh1te over that period, were we over achieving by getting to that position ? was it due to the poor form of others ? Of course I would like the play offs to be more than just a mathematical possibility for us but to be in with a shout, with a trophy already in the cabinet is good enough for me this season based on what my expectation was pre season. You expectation pre season is one thing, but what was your realistic expectation on the 5th December? Have we exceeded it or have we fallen short? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 On the 5th December we were 9 points off the playoffs. Today we are 11 points off the playoffs. You can say what you like but the table doesn't lie and Pardew has not performed over the past 4 months. To be worse off now than we were back in December is not good enough. This method is a complete falacy. At the start of season all teams (except those with deductions) are at the top of the table, and at the bottom. A team that ends mid-table on 50 points might finish 40 points off the top spot. Have they gained 50 points or lost 40? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 So i take it your are satisfied with our decline over the last 4 months? Because we are worse off than we were in december in terms of points so it is a decline. We've got more points than we had in December. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldsaint Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 It is fact. You might not like the truth but the results we have got since December have not progressed us. It's alright for you and others to give excuses about the pre season and the 10 point penalty - all valid, but i'm giving the REAL statistics for a period when these excuses stopped washing. But didn't we win a cup in the period you're talking about? We've also played in a lot of other cup games in the period we're talking about. 5th round of the FA cup, JPT winners (did you enjoy the trip to Wembley? I did) and a top 10 finish in the league, what a fantastic season it's been, thanks Mr Pardew (and others, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stmusicdude Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 So i take it your are satisfied with our decline over the last 4 months? Because we are worse off than we were in december in terms of points so it is a decline. using your theory, if we was 20 points off & the team above us won every game & we drew one making us 22 points of we would be in decline. It's an opinion not fact, it's an understandable opinion but opinion none the less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 I didn't allow my expectation level to change, I thought hey, we could do this but didn't expect us to because we were still inconsistent and to be fair not playing THAT well, I'm not suggesting for a moment we should accept it come what may due to where we were last April but I think we do need perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 2 April, 2010 Author Share Posted 2 April, 2010 This method is a complete falacy. At the start of season all teams (except those with deductions) are at the top of the table, and at the bottom. A team that ends mid-table on 50 points might finish 40 points off the top spot. Have they gained 50 points or lost 40? How is fallacy to compare fact with fact? Fact we were 9 points of the play-offs on 5th Dec. Fact we are 11 points off the playoffs now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 On the 5th December we were 9 points off the playoffs. Today we are 11 points off the playoffs. You can say what you like but the table doesn't lie and Pardew has not performed over the past 4 months. To be worse off now than we were back in December is not good enough. Frankly give it a rest would you? A record (I think) of P18 W9 D5 L4 F34 A15 Pts 32 with defeats to Leeds, Colchester and Tranmere away and Swindon home, three teams above us, 2 of the defeats over 3 months ago - all by the odd goal. I agree it could be better but it's hardly awful form is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 2 April, 2010 Author Share Posted 2 April, 2010 using your theory, if we was 20 points off & the team above us won every game & we drew one making us 22 points of we would be in decline. It's an opinion not fact, it's an understandable opinion but opinion none the less But that situation is a two horse race and one variable is winning and the other losing. The situtaion we are dealing with is a 24 horse race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 2 April, 2010 Author Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Frankly give it a rest would you? A record (I think) of P18 W9 D5 L4 F34 A15 Pts 32 with defeats to Leeds, Colchester and Tranmere away and Swindon home, three teams above us, 2 of the defeats over 3 months ago - all by the odd goal. I agree it could be better but it's hardly awful form is it? It's not awful form, but it is statistically slightly less than static form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Anytime we've had a chance to close the gap with the play off teams we've bottled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madruss Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 On the 5th December we were 9 points off the playoffs. Today we are 11 points off the playoffs. You can say what you like but the table doesn't lie and Pardew has not performed over the past 4 months. To be worse off now than we were back in December is not good enough. At the end of the December we were 20 points off 2nd place. We're now 17 points off 2nd place. So we've gotten closer to automatic promotion in that time and kept pace (form-wise) with the other playoff teams. It's not astonishing progress, but using your definition of success, it's still progress is it not?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 (edited) At the end of the December we were 20 points off 2nd place. We're now 17 points off 2nd place. So we've gotten closer to automatic promotion in that time and kept pace (form-wise) with the other playoff teams. It's not astonishing progress, but using your definition of success, it's still progress is it not?? In that time we have had to play Leedsx2 Colchester Huddersfield Millwall Swindon MK Dons and are now left only to play Charlton and Bristol Rovers Edited 2 April, 2010 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 It is fact. You might not like the truth but the results we have got since December have not progressed us. It's alright for you and others to give excuses about the pre season and the 10 point penalty - all valid, but i'm giving the REAL statistics for a period when these excuses stopped washing. You havn't provided any stats or any facts...FACT! You have provided us with a point of comparison to now which suits your argument. In order for your point to have any validity, you need to do some analysis on what has happened in the said period you have provided. I can do the same thing. At the start of the season we were 24th with -10 points. Today we are 10th with 54 points plus with the second best GD in the league. Progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 On the 5th December we were 9 points off the playoffs. Today we are 11 points off the playoffs. You can say what you like but the table doesn't lie and Pardew has not performed over the past 4 months. To be worse off now than we were back in December is not good enough. So your point is that since that winning streak in October and November, we've basically maintained playoff form, despite trips to Leeds, Norwich, Millwall, Colchester, MK and in form Brighton and Brentford? Nice to see some possitivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 How is fallacy to compare fact with fact? Fact we were 9 points of the play-offs on 5th Dec. Fact we are 11 points off the playoffs now. How many points were we above the relegation zone then and how many are we above now? All that matters is that we were out of the playoffs then and we shall almost certainly finish out of them, but if we were to play next season with the same form that we have shown since December then I am fairly certain that we shall get promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian the Red Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 5 home games, so thats 5 wins, its the 3 away games that bother me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 5 home games, so thats 5 wins, its the 3 away games that bother me... Charlton will be a tough game, they'll come for a point and we'll have to break them down. Depends if we have Morgan available, be interesting to see him compared to Racon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Charlton will be a tough game, they'll come for a point and we'll have to break them down. Depends if we have Morgan available, be interesting to see him compared to Racon. No it doesn't. It's silly how some people think Morgan is the be all and end all of our side. We can win games without him and lose games with him. He is a good player and will be missed, but I hate this defeatist attitude that seems to spring up when one player is missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Charlton will be a tough game, they'll come for a point and we'll have to break them down. Depends if we have Morgan available, be interesting to see him compared to Racon. He'll be playing for us next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 He'll be playing for us next season. my spies in Brittany tell me he won't, he'll be playing for one of three other clubs,all of them in with a chance of promotion to the EPL. Perhaps that'll change if they actually get there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvictaSaint Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 What cracks me up about these threads Is that certain persistent individuals continue to post the "it's not good enough" "we have not progressed" diatribe, but not once - not once- does any of these individuals suggest a more positive, more productive (in their eyes) alternative. So I would ask this of the moaners and wrist-slitters: given our historical lack of success when constantly changing managers; given where we were 12 months ago; and given that Pardew has not been in the job a year - if not Pardew, then WHO? If not Pardew then WHY not Pardew? Until somebody can give me an alternative route to success with a statistical likelihood of another manager doing better than Pardew, then it will just remain hot air spouted by the permanently miserable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 (edited) What cracks me up about these threads Is that certain persistent individuals continue to post the "it's not good enough" "we have not progressed" diatribe, but not once - not once- does any of these individuals suggest a more positive, more productive (in their eyes) alternative. So I would ask this of the moaners and wrist-slitters: given our historical lack of success when constantly changing managers; given where we were 12 months ago; and given that Pardew has not been in the job a year - if not Pardew, then WHO? If not Pardew then WHY not Pardew? Until somebody can give me an alternative route to success with a statistical likelihood of another manager doing better than Pardew, then it will just remain hot air spouted by the permanently miserable. Our Exeter results looks OK now after Colchester lost there 2 0 Edited 2 April, 2010 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 What cracks me up about these threads Is that certain persistent individuals continue to post the "it's not good enough" "we have not progressed" diatribe, but not once - not once- does any of these individuals suggest a more positive, more productive (in their eyes) alternative. So I would ask this of the moaners and wrist-slitters: given our historical lack of success when constantly changing managers; given where we were 12 months ago; and given that Pardew has not been in the job a year - if not Pardew, then WHO? If not Pardew then WHY not Pardew? Until somebody can give me an alternative route to success with a statistical likelihood of another manager doing better than Pardew, then it will just remain hot air spouted by the permanently miserable. I think this article will answer all your questions Pardew is out in steps........ http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/30/jose-mourinho-attacks-italy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie66 Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Gentleman Gentlemen the point is that while we all agree the play-offs are improbable they are still a possibility and that will keep the season alive and make going to games all the more interesting. Two wins at home and who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjinksie Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Yeah, lets f@ck him off and get.....oh....ah....um....?? Gary johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hectors house Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 On the 5th December we were 9 points off the playoffs. Today we are 11 points off the playoffs. You can say what you like but the table doesn't lie and Pardew has not performed over the past 4 months. To be worse off now than we were back in December is not good enough. Panic over because less than 3 hours later and we are now 11 points off 6th place with a game in hand so 8 points off the playoffs. A point better than December and and improvement of around 11% - Pardew is a god (at least until the next match). The only time to judge and use the league table as "FACT" is (IMO) at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 On the 5th December we were 9 points off the playoffs. Today we are 11 points off the playoffs. You can say what you like but the table doesn't lie and Pardew has not performed over the past 4 months. To be worse off now than we were back in December is not good enough. You need to get real mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 On the 5th December we were 9 points off the playoffs. Today we are 11 points off the playoffs. You can say what you like but the table doesn't lie and Pardew has not performed over the past 4 months. To be worse off now than we were back in December is not good enough. I spoke to Pardew and he has a message for you which I echo. What was it?? Hang on let me think? Oh yeah f u ck off. That was it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 On the 5th December we were 9 points off the playoffs. Today we are 11 points off the playoffs. You can say what you like but the table doesn't lie and Pardew has not performed over the past 4 months. To be worse off now than we were back in December is not good enough. Hold on a sec, since December 5th we've lost to Leeds Away Colchester Away Tranmere Away and Swindon at Home So surely bar Tranmere, we've lost to sides above us... good sides. Only on here could a manager overcome a 10 point deficit, with a virtually new sqaud, win our first piece of silverware in over 30 years and still have people have a pop at him... Wowsers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Forever Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 We've got more points than we had in December. :confused: Not as many more as we should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Hold on a sec, since December 5th we've lost to Leeds Away Colchester Away Tranmere Away and Swindon at Home So surely bar Tranmere, we've lost to sides above us... good sides. Only on here could a manager overcome a 10 point deficit, with a virtually new sqaud, win our first piece of silverware in over 30 years and still have people have a pop at him... Wowsers... Not only that, but we could still be promoted - albeit a slim chance but a chance nonetheless. Without a deficit we are one point off the play offs with a game in hand. One fecking point... From twelve months ago being Championship whipping boys and then escaping oblivion by days and rebuilding an entire club from the ground up. Still, every village has to have some... (And I didn't even mention the pre-season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Forever Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Hold on a sec, since December 5th we've lost to Leeds Away Colchester Away Tranmere Away and Swindon at Home So surely bar Tranmere, we've lost to sides above us... good sides. Only on here could a manager overcome a 10 point deficit, with a virtually new sqaud, win our first piece of silverware in over 30 years and still have people have a pop at him... Wowsers... It is not the defeats alone that is hurting us. It is us having a manager who leaves his best options either on the bench or at home when we need them. Pardew has possibly cost us enough to make the play offs comfortably. All teams can lose a game but there is losing because your opponent played well and losing because you failed to play at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Not quite sure what the OP is trying to say other than have a pop at AP. WOULD be interested to know what the OP would like to do about our bad season since December. me i am glad i do not have enough time on my hands to analyse down to this level, just happy to enjoy my football again, support a side that is loved by the local population, have a decent owner with a future. it took the club over 80 years to get into the top flight of english football, if it takes 5 to get back so what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 It is not the defeats alone that is hurting us. It is us having a manager who leaves his best options either on the bench or at home when we need them. Pardew has possibly cost us enough to make the play offs comfortably. All teams can lose a game but there is losing because your opponent played well and losing because you failed to play at all. so his fault when we do not win but someone elses when we do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint J Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 What cracks me up about these threads Is that certain persistent individuals continue to post the "it's not good enough" "we have not progressed" diatribe, but not once - not once- does any of these individuals suggest a more positive, more productive (in their eyes) alternative. So I would ask this of the moaners and wrist-slitters: given our historical lack of success when constantly changing managers; given where we were 12 months ago; and given that Pardew has not been in the job a year - if not Pardew, then WHO? If not Pardew then WHY not Pardew? Until somebody can give me an alternative route to success with a statistical likelihood of another manager doing better than Pardew, then it will just remain hot air spouted by the permanently miserable. Great comment! we are one point better off today than we were yesterday still with a game in hand over colchester & Bristol Rovers. Huddersfield & Mk Dons have harder run ins than us, we can still do the play offs even if it is a long shot. Pardew has made a few mistakes this season but has made a lot more progress than any of us thought 8 months ago! if we don't make it this season then we must next,You've got to remember we did not have a proper squad untill a quarter of the way through the season! Don't judge Pardew untill he has a full season, Pre-season with a full squad!!!! Thank you Alan!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Flying Finn Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 Since then we have played 7 cup games and signed 5 new players. All of that takes time to gel and bed in. If you expect instant results then you are being naieve, particularly after the last few years the club has had. Pardew's aim this season was to build a team that could conquer next season, and win have success in the cup competitions. He has achieved both. I think to achieve that and still be in with a shout of the play-offs this season represents a very satisfactory season. Nobody has any divine right to gain instant promotion in this league. Just look at Leeds attempts over the last three seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 2 April, 2010 Share Posted 2 April, 2010 It is not the defeats alone that is hurting us. It is us having a manager who leaves his best options either on the bench or at home when we need them. Pardew has possibly cost us enough to make the play offs comfortably. All teams can lose a game but there is losing because your opponent played well and losing because you failed to play at all. Who were the best options left on the bench or at home in those defeats? And you are right, it isn't the defeats alone which have hurt our promotion chances but a whole host of reasons outside of Pardews control which have and I don't need to detail as it's been done to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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