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If Lowe is the problem...


Legod Third Coming
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Then lets STOP all the moaning and wailing and gnashing of teeth and do something about it.

 

First, there must be a plan NOT to remove Rupert but that presents a BETTER alternative to the existing shareholders whose support will be essential.

 

This plan will also need support of the club's financial backers who can exert their own pressure on the shareholders.

 

Ideally the plan will also need some finanancial backing of its own - not a huge amout but several million to invest in the stability of the club's finances short-term.

 

Finally, it will need to demonstrate how the plan differs from what is on offer through the existing board.

 

IMHO this plan should not be disruptive in the short term to the playing and coaching staff - since that will send the shareholders back into the ground and scare the bankers senseless.

 

Where it could score valuable points is as follows:

 

1. It might offer an opportunity to increase revenue through match attendance increase IF supporters could pledge to attend post-the new consortium.

 

2. The money on offer would enable us to recall some of our better players and support securing existing loaned players more permanently.

 

3. By offering stability within the playing and coaching staff (in fact additional support in both areas), it cannot be rejected by the existing shareholders on the basis that it is disruptive to the club. In essence all that happens is that Rupert Lowe is replaced short-term.

 

I am happy to contribute time to the above.

 

However, I am not a finance specialist nor do I have cash! What I do have is time, energy and a passion to see this club succesful.

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I applaud your enthusiasm and you're hearts in the right place... but if it were that easy it would have been done already.

 

Sadly, there isn't an easy or even believable way of finding millions of pounds to invest, because...

 

- If one single investor puts their money in, they would want control of the club or at least Lowes seat. Lowe wont allow that.

 

- If a group invests, Lowe will insist they clear all debts, take 100% control of the club and will also ensure his pockets are lined. Just like he did with the SISU bid which fell apart.

 

- If a small group of private investors can invest, they too will want their people installed and in control, which Lowe wont allow.

 

Lowe will step aside if the 'right' bid comes in. But his view of the right bid seems to be a total purchase, all debt cleared and a decent amount of investment in the club made all up front with clear evidence that this is possible with no lending. Finding somebody with that level of funds is going to be impossible in the current climate.

 

And with the threat of Administration looming, why would somebody put their millions into the club when there is every chance of them being able to purchase the club from Administrators in the not too distant future for a much lower price? I'm not saying Administration is guaranteed, but from an investors point of view, waiting and seeing would be the sensible choice in todays climate.

 

So unless there is another way of raising millions of pounds, I can't see anything changing. Even if we had a whipround, the entire stadium would have to put a three-figure sum in and with peoples money being stretched further than ever before, that's unlikely. It would also gain a lot of attention, going against your wish of not causing disruption or unrest.

 

So as much as I applaud you for caring, it looks impossible to achieve :(

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I applaud your enthusiasm and you're hearts in the right place... but if it were that easy it would have been done already.

 

Sadly, there isn't an easy or even believable way of finding millions of pounds to invest, because...

 

- If one single investor puts their money in, they would want control of the club or at least Lowes seat. Lowe wont allow that.

 

- If a group invests, Lowe will insist they clear all debts, take 100% control of the club and will also ensure his pockets are lined. Just like he did with the SISU bid which fell apart.

 

- If a small group of private investors can invest, they too will want their people installed and in control, which Lowe wont allow.

 

Lowe will step aside if the 'right' bid comes in. But his view of the right bid seems to be a total purchase, all debt cleared and a decent amount of investment in the club made all up front with clear evidence that this is possible with no lending. Finding somebody with that level of funds is going to be impossible in the current climate.

 

And with the threat of Administration looming, why would somebody put their millions into the club when there is every chance of them being able to purchase the club from Administrators in the not too distant future for a much lower price? I'm not saying Administration is guaranteed, but from an investors point of view, waiting and seeing would be the sensible choice in todays climate.

 

So unless there is another way of raising millions of pounds, I can't see anything changing. Even if we had a whipround, the entire stadium would have to put a three-figure sum in and with peoples money being stretched further than ever before, that's unlikely. It would also gain a lot of attention, going against your wish of not causing disruption or unrest.

 

So as much as I applaud you for caring, it looks impossible to achieve :(

 

Sad, but true. Which is why, and I have to say this through gritted teeth, the present option is the only one that we can support or not. Either there is a mass non-support, or the moaning should stop, and we should get on with the business of supporting the club.

 

Now I'm quite happy to do a mass non-support [backed with an appropriate statement] if it means that Lowe is pushed out of the club. But I'm not willing to do it in mid-season. If, near the season's end, it looks as if the club will be mathematically safe, or are doomed to relegation, then would be the time to do a non-support, by staying away from St Marys en masse. Then they can't ignore us.

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But as I understand it, Lowe does not control all the shares or even a majority. Therefore a plan need only persuade the other shareholders to back it.

 

The vast majority of the shareholders are either Lowe, Wilde or held by people who will do whatever Lowe tells them. That's how he managed to get back in power.

 

Lowe himself only controls a small number of shares, but with his glove puppet Wilde holding a large percentage on top of Lowes 'people', he actually controls well over 50%.

 

The only people who have a large enough stake to make some noise our Crouch and the Indian chap who's name I forget. But Crouch has had control but had to admit defeat against Lowes control and the other chap seems happy to just sit and watch.

 

The idea of protests outside the gate has been done before, heck, we even had a plane fly-by with a Lowe Out banner. And what response did we get? Lowe claimed it was a minority and labelled them the Lunatic Fringe.

 

Another sad but true fact is this forum only counts for a small percent of fans. And of that small percent, less than two thirds would actually join in such a protest. Even if you got every active member of this forum involved, you'd still only have a relatively small number of fans behind you. Vocal fans indeed, but small enough for Lowe to dismiss.

 

The rest of the fans either don't give a monkey about what goes on in the boardroom, are only interested in the football or don't have their own opinion (the sort who will join in with whatever chant is going at that moment).

 

Please don't take this personally or as an attack against your ideas, it's no more than my opinion. I'm all for something happening, it just has to be the right something as otherwise it will get dismissed, as happened before.

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i think if we were investable it would have happened by now.

the truth is we are not investable,the deal is probably so complicated and debt ridden that only a fool or a billionaire would invest.i think there are plenty of fools but not enough billionaires.

if lowe is the problem then what is the cure,because i cant see any cures on the horizon?

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i think if we were investable it would have happened by now.

the truth is we are not investable,the deal is probably so complicated and debt ridden that only a fool or a billionaire would invest.i think there are plenty of fools but not enough billionaires.

if lowe is the problem then what is the cure,because i cant see any cures on the horizon?

 

Simple answer is get rid of Lowe isn't it?

 

Contrary to some people's beliefs, there ARE other people out there capable of running a football club AND prepared to do it on the same wage as Lowe gets. All this nonsense that Lowe is the only option is b0IIocks!!

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Simple answer is get rid of Lowe isn't it?

 

Contrary to some people's beliefs, there ARE other people out there capable of running a football club AND prepared to do it on the same wage as Lowe gets. All this nonsense that Lowe is the only option is b0IIocks!!

 

Find them. Please..!

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Simple answer is get rid of Lowe isn't it?

 

Contrary to some people's beliefs, there ARE other people out there capable of running a football club AND prepared to do it on the same wage as Lowe gets. All this nonsense that Lowe is the only option is b0IIocks!!

 

Any examples?

 

And even if you're right, Lowe will not step down. He has such a huge control over shares that nobody can vote him out. And he isn't going to step down from him role, nobody would just quit their job as they think somebody else may be better. I certainly wouldn't quite my job just like that.

 

So let's say you find somebody with more years experience of running a football club with CCC and Premiership experience who is out of work, willing to take over control of a debt ridden club who are forced to sell their best players with no way of buying new ones, you'd still have no hope of getting them into the top job.

 

And in any case, the problem isn't who is in the Chairman's position. It's a lack of money. Even if you found Mr.Perfect Chairman, if he doesn't come with millions of pounds to invest our situation wont improve.

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Any examples?.

 

Probably almost every league Club will have a CEO/MD running the show. They're as numerous as managers!!!!!!

 

And just like managers, I presume there are some sat twiddling their thumbs who we could look at, there are probably some working in other roles who we could look at and of course there may be some currently employed who we could look at.

 

There are probably other indidivuals working in related industries who could also do a decent job. They of course may end up doing a worse job (although I'm not sure just how worse!!), but there are alternatives out there.

 

Going to an extreme, does this Club just fold when Lowe finally retires???

 

And even if you're right, Lowe will not step down. He has such a huge control over shares that nobody can vote him out. And he isn't going to step down from him role, nobody would just quit their job as they think somebody else may be better. I certainly wouldn't quite my job just like that.

 

So let's say you find somebody with more years experience of running a football club with CCC and Premiership experience who is out of work, willing to take over control of a debt ridden club who are forced to sell their best players with no way of buying new ones, you'd still have no hope of getting them into the top job.

 

Totally agree, but saying that it looks very difficult to get a new man in is a totally different argument to saying that there is no alternative out there.

 

If the will is there amongst some of the cabal for change, then change might happen, but until that point Lowe is in the boss seat.

 

And in any case, the problem isn't who is in the Chairman's position. It's a lack of money. Even if you found Mr.Perfect Chairman, if he doesn't come with millions of pounds to invest our situation wont improve.

 

Whilst a shedload of money would undoubtedly improve the situation, I don't buy into the idea that without it any improvement is impossible (otherwise we might as well just give up right now).

 

Even with our tight financial constraints there were (and still are) a number of different strategies we could have implemented.

 

The most obvious would have been to retain Pearson.

 

Whilst it would have been no guarantee of success, it is a perfectly valid example of how we may have done things differently.

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There is nothing the fans can do to effect who owns/runs the club unless someone with some clout come up with a plan. If Crouch comes up with a better alternative then maybe boycotts/protests could help force Lowe and Wilde out.

 

If Crouch could buy out the other chap with a high perfect of shares and also increase the number of shares he holds, he may stand a chance of making enough noise to rattle Lowes cage. But having been through this before, I feel Lowe is even more determined to hold onto his position than ever before.

 

It really is going to take a lot of money and a solid business case for Lowe to stand down. Lowe is responsible to the shareholders and has a legal responsibility to act in the best interest of the business, so if somebody offers to buy the club at at least market rate and can guarantee to clear debt and offer investment then Lowe will have a legal duty to accept, as it would clearly be in the companies best interests. But I bet you my last Rolo that he will find every possible excuse not to.

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Simple answer is get rid of Lowe isn't it?

 

Contrary to some people's beliefs, there ARE other people out there capable of running a football club AND prepared to do it on the same wage as Lowe gets. All this nonsense that Lowe is the only option is b0IIocks!!

 

im happy for lowe to leave asap,but just getting rid of him is not the answer....its not that simple.whilst he is a shareholder he will always be lurking in the background and tbh i dont think he will ever give them up unless he is on the bones of his arse or is forced to by a complete buy out a la manu.

good luck with the campaign but it wont get you anywhere unless somebody is able to drive a wedge between lowe and wilde,unless this happens it will continue to be same old same old.

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All of which, above, gets us precisely nowhere.

 

Lowe is our only option unless someone can come up with a plan to remove him.

 

RobM, I don't take anything you say personally and am grateful for the information.

 

But knowing how companies and people work, what we have here is a political situation. Lowe is being kept in place by shareholders currently loyal to him.

 

We therefore need a plan to make them turn against Lowe.

 

Either this must be something in their short-term financial interest or which they can see is the best option for the club - their motivation doesn't matter just so long as they effectively change sides.

 

So, our options are as follows:

 

1. Do nothing but shut up and support the team.

 

2. Continue to moan about Lowe in the knowledge we intend to do nothing. Which to me seems the most hopeless waste of time and energy known to man.

 

3. Start work on garnering support - at ground level and on the board - for a change of direction.

 

ST Landrew I respect that this could be disruptive to the team but the work to garner support for a new plan and regime need not be in the open until it is ready.

 

As for what Lowe might have done differently, that is totally immaterial as he is doing what he believes is right for his and the interests of the club.

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Probably almost every league Club will have a CEO/MD running the show. They're as numerous as managers!!!!!!

 

And just like managers, I presume there are some sat twiddling their thumbs who we could look at, there are probably some working in other roles who we could look at and of course there may be some currently employed who we could look at.

 

There are probably other indidivuals working in related industries who could also do a decent job. They of course may end up doing a worse job (although I'm not sure just how worse!!), but there are alternatives out there.

 

Going to an extreme, does this Club just fold when Lowe finally retires???

 

Of course not. But there is a big difference between finding an alternative and finding a better alternative. Now I'm not for one second saying I think Lowe is the best candidate, but to better Lowe you have to find somebody with more years experience (10+) of running a football club, ideally including Prem experience. You also need a sound and proven businessman with decent contacts and a good business brain. And on top of that, somebody who knows the game of football and the mentality of football people better than Lowe.

 

On top of that, this person would have to be willing to take on a company in masses of debt with a falling income stream, unhappy customer base and slipping performances from a young and inexperienced team.

 

You have to admit, unfortunately, that there aren't many people like that around that tick all the necessary boxes. And we have been down the route of 'anyones better than Lowe' before and ended up in a worse mess.

 

 

Totally agree, but saying that it looks very difficult to get a new man in is a totally different argument to saying that there is no alternative out there.

 

If the will is there amongst some of the cabal for change, then change might happen, but until that point Lowe is in the boss seat.

 

As above :)

 

Whilst a shedload of money would undoubtedly improve the situation, I don't buy into the idea that without it any improvement is impossible (otherwise we might as well just give up right now).

 

Even with our tight financial constraints there were (and still are) a number of different strategies we could have implemented.

 

The most obvious would have been to retain Pearson.

 

Whilst it would have been no guarantee of success, it is a perfectly valid example of how we may have done things differently.

 

Any business can improve, regardless of their success or otherwise. But I'm looking at the bigger, realistic picture. It's not the case that the Chairmans position is empty and needs to be filled by whoever is deemed the best candidate. The situation we're in, as my last post mentions, is anybody wanting to buy into the club or have a go at the Chairmans role has to put together a case that gives Lowe no option than to admit it's in the best interest of the company.

Edited by RobM
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If Crouch could buy out the other chap with a high perfect of shares and also increase the number of shares he holds, he may stand a chance of making enough noise to rattle Lowes cage. But having been through this before, I feel Lowe is even more determined to hold onto his position than ever before.

 

It really is going to take a lot of money and a solid business case for Lowe to stand down. Lowe is responsible to the shareholders and has a legal responsibility to act in the best interest of the business, so if somebody offers to buy the club at at least market rate and can guarantee to clear debt and offer investment then Lowe will have a legal duty to accept, as it would clearly be in the companies best interests. But I bet you my last Rolo that he will find every possible excuse not to.

 

That is not necesarily the case, if Crouch could come up with something decent then Wilde or even some of Lowe's butt boys might turn. For example if Crouch lined up David Dein and offered to pay his wages out of his own pocket if Lowe and Wilde fecked off. If something half decent is on the table it would give the fans something to boycott about - a few games of -10K attendances and Lowe would soon see the folly of hanging on.

 

Lowe only holds a few shares, if you split him from his other backers he is pretty insignificant.

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If Crouch could buy out the other chap with a high perfect of shares and also increase the number of shares he holds, he may stand a chance of making enough noise to rattle Lowes cage. But having been through this before, I feel Lowe is even more determined to hold onto his position than ever before.

 

It really is going to take a lot of money and a solid business case for Lowe to stand down. Lowe is responsible to the shareholders and has a legal responsibility to act in the best interest of the business, so if somebody offers to buy the club at at least market rate and can guarantee to clear debt and offer investment then Lowe will have a legal duty to accept, as it would clearly be in the companies best interests. But I bet you my last Rolo that he will find every possible excuse not to.

 

too true,you can bet your life that lowe has prepared himself for every eventuality,crouch making a move,wilde selling out or outside investment,lowe will be ready this time and he wont let his position go without a dirty fight.whoever wants the gig better have a baldrick style 'cunning plan' otherwise they might as well not bother.

hopefully there is somebody out there but at the moment i just cant see it.

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Simple answer is get rid of Lowe isn't it?

 

Contrary to some people's beliefs, there ARE other people out there capable of running a football club AND prepared to do it on the same wage as Lowe gets. All this nonsense that Lowe is the only option is b0IIocks!!

I disagree, the simpler answer must be to get rid of Wilde. Without Wilde's backing Lowe does not have control. Wilde is the key, he is the king maker, and he is the one without principles and with more to lose, not to mention the fact that he is closer to the edge, I think, than Lowe, because of his business failures. What is needed is someone willing to buy Wilde out and who can get along with Crouch, then Lowe will be gone very quickly.

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That is not necesarily the case, if Crouch could come up with something decent then Wilde or even some of Lowe's butt boys might turn. For example if Crouch lined up David Dein and offered to pay his wages out of his own pocket if Lowe and Wilde fecked off. If something half decent is on the table it would give the fans something to boycott about - a few games of -10K attendances and Lowe would soon see the folly of hanging on.

 

Lowe only holds a few shares, if you split him from his other backers he is pretty insignificant.

 

You could well be right, but is somebody like Crouch willing to take on this challenge? If so, I'd back him every step of the way, and I'm by fan a big fan of Crouch.

 

Another sad element to this, is I don't believe the shareholders Lowe is representing are strong enough to turn their back on him. It would have to be in their best interests for them to do so, which ultimately means lining their pockets somehow.

 

Another possible hope is that Judas Wilde will make yet another U-Turn and back somebody else with a prettier smile and more gentle touch than Lowe.

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I disagree, the simpler answer must be to get rid of Wilde. Without Wilde's backing Lowe does not have control. Wilde is the key, he is the king maker, and he is the one without principles and with more to lose, not to mention the fact that he is closer to the edge, I think, than Lowe, because of his business failures. What is needed is someone willing to buy Wilde out and who can get along with Crouch, then Lowe will be gone very quickly.

 

Crouchy, Crouchy, Crouchy... where are yoooou? ;)

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I drive past his company buildings every day? ;)

 

Try going direct. From what I've heard and read of Crouch he is a fairly approachable feller and I'm sure he'd welcome the chance to talk anti-Lowe things to fans. Even sounding him out on whether he has any intention or interest in stepping back into St.Marys power again.

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This all seems so depressingly futile, Crouch has not exactly covered himself in glory in this whole episode, any changes of chairman/Cheif Exec will probably just be rearranging the deck chairs.

 

The only way out is having the club owned outright by someone, the only way that will happen is if we go bust IMO. Admin is inevitable, we just have to hope there is something half decent afterwards.

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But there is a big difference between finding an alternative and finding a better alternative.

 

I think we actually agree on quite a bit (at least in that we both accept there are alternatives out there), but we'll probably have to agree to disagree on what would be a better appointment, as I think your critique of Lowe as CEO is somewhat more generous than what mine would be!!!!!

 

I don't think I hold him in as such high regard as you seem to, but we're all entitled to our own opinion.

 

is anybody wanting to buy into the club or have a go at the Chairmans role has to put together a case that gives Lowe no option than to admit it's in the best interest of the company.

 

I don't think lowe would ever be convinced that someone could do a better job than him;).

 

The case would have to be that those who support Lowe would need to change their position on whether he is the best man for the job!!!!!!

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Lowe fits into my list of all things good just under drowning, so I don't hold him in as high regard as you may think. However, when Wilde brought in his merry men we were all really pleased that somebody with football experience (well, as close to that as Fulham get) would be running the show. That didn't work out so well.

 

I guess my point is we have to be 110% certain that anybody taking Lowe's position would be better for the job and not leave us vulnerable in some areas.

 

If you find that man, then you'll never buy another pint at half time again, they will truly be on me forever more! :D

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If you find that man,

 

I'm no headhunter!!!!!!!

 

Have to agree with what you say, in that someone should be out there looking, but the problem is that those in charge didn't (and still don't) show the slightest inclination to look further than the stagnant gene pool of the major shareholders.

 

Looking back to those Runnymede minutes, it was all about divvying up the jobs between the big boys, with no one (including Crouch) showing any nous to look outside and think about who would be best for the job as opposed to who can we shoe horn into each role!!!

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An even smaller forum with an even smaller user base?

 

 

Maybe - but it used to have a history of uncensored comments regarding the clubs management.

 

Before TSF existed many disillusioned Saints Forever posters (including the current admins, Weston and Up Pahars used to post there.) Perhaps it's time to resurrect it. I'm not involved in it but it's free to register and just maybe we can make the club listen to us....

 

http://foreversaints.1talk.net/forever-saints-f1/

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I have a feeling that both Lowe & Wilde are short of cash at the moment (but then who is'nt!) and that they would quite possibly sell their shares at a knock down price.

 

Like the earlier poster, i would be worried about whoever replaced Lowe moving us again into the frying pan from the fire.

 

I think Lowe bears a large percentge of blame for our current position (tho' not as bigger percentage as Wilde) and whilst I would love out 1 star chairman to be replaced by a wealthy 5 star chairman I cringe of the thought of any more no star chairman (I don't class Crouch as a no star chairman btw)

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If Crouch could buy out the other chap with a high perfect of shares and also increase the number of shares he holds, he may stand a chance of making enough noise to rattle Lowes cage. But having been through this before, I feel Lowe is even more determined to hold onto his position than ever before.

 

It really is going to take a lot of money and a solid business case for Lowe to stand down. Lowe is responsible to the shareholders and has a legal responsibility to act in the best interest of the business, so if somebody offers to buy the club at at least market rate and can guarantee to clear debt and offer investment then Lowe will have a legal duty to accept, as it would clearly be in the companies best interests. But I bet you my last Rolo that he will find every possible excuse not to.

 

 

The crazy thing is I suspect Crouch wants to buy more shares but Wilde won't sell to him.

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The crazy thing is I suspect Crouch wants to buy more shares but Wilde won't sell to him.

 

im glad wilde wont sell to him,i wouldnt want him back again.we need to stop this silly merry-go-round of the 3 major shareholders jumping into the hotseat as it is bringing this club to its knees.we need a fresh injection of new money and new ideas not the old lot taking it in turns to p1ss everybody off and not injecting any money.

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im glad wilde wont sell to him,i wouldnt want him back again.we need to stop this silly merry-go-round of the 3 major shareholders jumping into the hotseat as it is bringing this club to its knees.we need a fresh injection of new money and new ideas not the old lot taking it in turns to p1ss everybody off and not injecting any money.

 

I believe Crouch is the only one that has or has offered to put money into the club

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Find them. Please..!

 

Isn't that the job of the board of the PLC?

 

Surely the whole board has a responsibility to the share holders and should therefore be holding a vote of no confidence against the Chairman.

 

It would then be their job to find a suitable replacement.

 

I'll happily do the job though for the right price ;)

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