badgerx16 Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Not simply 'my perspective', they are demonstrably 100% false ...... Obviously not, or the churches and mosques would be empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 What was the waters temperature? How could a human evolving from a fish in the Atlantic Ocean survive for more than a few hours? Have you still not grasped that some aquatic life can not live in salt water and some can not live in freshwater? Yes, some can live in both, but many die if moved from the type they have evolved to live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Obviously not, or the churches and mosques would be empty. Just because people believe in them, doesn’t add any truth to them at all. If 4 billion people believed in Gavin, the giant orange space bat, it wouldn’t make it any more true. Churches and mosques are full because of fear and indoctrination, not because the people there have put any thought into their beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 How have you determined the likelihood of one vs the other? Evolution by natural selection is an observed fact, it is not fanciful. The Bible claims man came from clay and woman came from a rib. That is fanciful and not supported by evidence. Really. What about before that? - before the entire universe was smaller than pinhead. What existed then? The ancient age had parables told by believers, we have theories told by believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Obviously not, or the churches and mosques would be empty. How have you worked that out? People believe lots of things despite evidence against it. People are gullible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Raging bull claimed that in order to get the evidence required to believe in Christ you need to believe in Christ and it will be revealed to you. That is circular reasoning. So it is you that 'does not get it'... not me! Where have I said that? Matthew, I don't necessarily take everything/anything in the Bible as ' Gospel' (sic), particularly the Old Testament, but you keep trying to construct definitive either/or arguments based on insecure constructs. Look at it this way; if you are right and there is no God or Heaven, we will actually never know, but if there is, you will hopefully be pleasantly surprised. Accept he actually has to believe in and ask Christ into his life first. I pray that 1 day he does. I simply said you have to ask Christ into your life to get to heaven. Yet another own goal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Have you still not grasped that some aquatic life can not live in salt water and some can not live in freshwater? Yes, some can live in both, but many die if moved from the type they have evolved to live in. What about if Once all could live in both but they evolved to only survive in the one they lived in? That’s possible is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Really. What about before that? - before the entire universe was smaller than pinhead. What existed then? Have you considered that may be a nonsensical question and that it is impossible for anything to exist before time? Existence is temporal by definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 What about if Once all could live in both but they evolved to only survive in the one they lived in? That’s possible is it not? No, because they would be evidence in the fossil record and DNA sequence... and there isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Have you considered that may be a nonsensical question and that it is impossible for anything to exist before time? Existence is temporal by definition. I see you're a believer too. Just a different church Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Matthew, I don't necessarily take everything/anything in the Bible as ' Gospel' (sic), particularly the Old Testament, but you keep trying to construct definitive either/or arguments based on insecure constructs. Look at it this way; if you are right and there is no God or Heaven, we will actually never know, but if there is, you will hopefully be pleasantly surprised. Accept he actually has to believe in and ask Christ into his life first. I pray that 1 day he does. It's not even as if the scientific explanation is any less fantastic and unlikely. So we're on one of a trillion rocks hurtling through a black vacuum of space lit only by vast fireballs, and oh by the way we evolved from a fish. It takes even more faith to believe in the big bang horse sh*t than it does to believe in a divine creator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 People believe lots of things despite evidence against it. Some people believe thay are skilled football managers because they play computer games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 It takes even more faith to believe in the big bang horse sh*t than it does to believe in a divine creator There is very strong evidence for the Big Bang and absolutely none of a divine creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 No, because they would be evidence in the fossil record and DNA sequence... and there isn't. LOL so to say a man can evolve from a fish is perfectly reasonable but it’s completely impossible for a breed of fish to stay fish and just be able to live in the water they’ve lived in for the last hundred thousand years. Laughable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 No, because they would be evidence in the fossil record and DNA sequence... and there isn't. How do you definitively know from a fossil fish what environment it inhabited ? What part of the DNA sequence identifies the physiological adaptations necessary for a specific aquatic environment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 There is very strong evidence for the Big Bang and absolutely none of a divine creator. And where would that big bang have come from? What/who would have made the parts that went into the big bang? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 And where would that big bang have come from? What/who would have made the parts that went into the big bang? We don’t know. We just have very strong evidence, based on red shift and the Doppler effect, that it happened about 14 billion years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 It takes even more faith to believe in the big bang horse sh*t than it does to believe in a divine creator It doesn't require any faith. There is demonstrable and testable evidence for the Big Bang, there is not evidence for a divine creator apart from an old book. Evidence of Big Bang = red shift of galaxies, measurement of cosmic radiation, amount of light elements produced by BBN plus others Evidence of creator god = an old book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 LOL so to say a man can evolve from a fish is perfectly reasonable but it’s completely impossible for a breed of fish to stay fish and just be able to live in the water they’ve lived in for the last hundred thousand years. Laughable We are not talking about hundreds of thousands of years... the Bible says the world is 10,000 years old and the flood happened 4,300 years ago! The Chinese and other cultures around the world lived before, during and after the flood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 How do you definitively know from a fossil fish what environment it inhabited ? What part of the DNA sequence identifies the physiological adaptations necessary for a specific aquatic environment ? Salt-water fish lose water to their surroundings through osmosis, freshwater fish do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 And where would that big bang have come from? What/who would have made the parts that went into the big bang? This is something you keep messing up on. You are coming from a starting point that there is a 'who'. That is not how scientific enquiry works, you follow the evidence to the answer, you don't start at an answer of a creator and work backwards (like you keep doing!). Science don't know what happened before the big bang, before the big bang my even be a nonsense as before time has no meaning. Why do you seem to have a problem with 'we don't know the answer'? Why is that unacceptable to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 We are not talking about hundreds of thousands of years... the Bible says the world is 10,000 years old and the flood happened 4,300 years ago! The Chinese and other cultures around the world lived before, during and after the flood! What have Chinese people got to do with if a fish cant stay a fish and adapt to its surroundings but a fish can become a human? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 This is something you keep messing up on. You are coming from a starting point that there is a 'who'. That is not how scientific enquiry works, you follow the evidence to the answer, you don't start at an answer of a creator and work backwards (like you keep doing!). Science don't know what happened before the big bang, before the big bang my even be a nonsense as before time has no meaning. Why do you seem to have a problem with 'we don't know the answer'? Why is that unacceptable to you? “Why do you seem to have a problem with we don’t know the answer?” One of the most hypocritical things you’ve ever said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 “Why do you seem to have a problem with we don’t know the answer?” One of the most hypocritical things you’ve ever said Why is that hypocritical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Why is that hypocritical? When have you ever said you don’t know the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 What have Chinese people got to do with if a fish cant stay a fish and adapt to its surroundings but a fish can become a human? The Chinese living before, during and after the supposed flood shows it did not happen. The Bible claims everyone died, yet the Chinese and every other civilisation around the world did not die from the flood. Do you seriously not believe evolution by natural selection explains the diversity of life on the planet? It is an observable and testable fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 The Chinese living before, during and after the supposed flood shows it did not happen. The Bible claims everyone died, yet the Chinese and every other civilisation around the world did not die from the flood. Do you seriously not believe evolution by natural selection explains the diversity of life on the planet? It is an observable and testable fact. Do you seriously believe it’s possible for a fish to become a human but it’s impossible for a Breed of fish that has lived in freshwater for thousands of years to evolve to only be able to survive in that type of water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 When have you ever said you don’t know the answer? A few minutes ago when I said I don't know what happened before the big bang and that 'before the big bang' may even be nonsensical as existence before time is a non sequitur. I have never said there is no god... I don't know if there is. However I can say with 100% confidence the god as described in the Bible does not exist as it is contradictory nature shows it is impossible for him to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Do you seriously believe it’s possible for a fish to become a human but it’s impossible for a Breed of fish that has lived in freshwater for thousands of years to evolve to only be able to survive in that type of water? You failed to answer my question. Do you seriously not believe evolution by natural selection explains the diversity of life on the planet? It is an observable and testable fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 I like how you’re actually debating the story of Noah’s Ark, as if it were in any way possible for an old man to round up a breeding pair of every animal (I think there are about half a million known beetles alone). Even the Christians I know don’t really believe that bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 You failed to answer my question. Do you seriously not believe evolution by natural selection explains the diversity of life on the planet? It is an observable and testable fact. You’ve failed to answer many of mine and I raised this point before you started going on about evolution,so you go first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 I like how you’re actually debating the story of Noah’s Ark, as if it were in any way possible for an old man to round up a breeding pair of every animal (I think there are about half a million known beetles alone). Even the Christians I know don’t really believe that bit. Raging Bull appears to believe it literally happened, as do huge numbers in the Bible belt in the USA. I do wonder how they fed the lions... did they turn vegetarian? Repopulating through incest is a genetic nightmare waiting to happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 I like how you’re actually debating the story of Noah’s Ark, as if it were in any way possible for an old man to round up a breeding pair of every animal (I think there are about half a million known beetles alone). Even the Christians I know don’t really believe that bit. MLGs biggest problem is he takes everything literally. “The world” in Noah’s day wasn’t the world as we know it today. The vast majority of it hadn’t even been discovered then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 You’ve failed to answer many of mine and I raised this point before you started going on about evolution,so you go first I'm pretty sure I've answered every question of yours. If I haven't which one did I miss? Do you seriously believe it’s possible for a fish to become a human but it’s impossible for a Breed of fish that has lived in freshwater for thousands of years to evolve to only be able to survive in that type of water? Are you aware that the time period from humans their common ancestor with fish is 375,000,000 years ago and that Noah's flood is 4,000 years ago? 4,000 years is tiny in evolution and not enough for the fundamental changes in anatomy you are suggesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 MLGs biggest problem is he takes everything literally. Does the Bible come with a sticker saying 'do not take literally'? No... it doesn't... which is why millions of people do take it literally. Just look at the Bible belt in America where they spent £100m on this... “The world” in Noah’s day wasn’t the world as we know it today. The vast majority of it hadn’t even been discovered then. Which is why my point regarding kangaroos is relevant despite you dismissing it! Noah did not know America, South America, large parts of Africa, large parts of Asia and Australasia existed... let alone what unique animals were there. How did the unique wildlife of Australia survive the flood if Noah didn't sail thousands of miles to pick them up from a continent he didn't know existed and then drop them off again? There is no evidence of kangaroos migrating in either direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 I'm pretty sure I've answered every question of yours. If I haven't which one did I miss? Are you aware that the time period from humans their common ancestor with fish is 375,000,000 years ago and that Noah's flood is 4,000 years ago? 4,000 years is tiny in evolution and not enough for the fundamental changes in anatomy you are suggesting! It’s a simple yes or no question If a fish can become a human Can fish stay a fish and adapt to its surroundings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 By the way... the ark at that theme park is of the dimensions as described in the Bible. However a wooden ship of that size is impossible and would fall apart so they needed to strengthen the theme park ark with steel. Something Noah didn't have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Does the Bible come with a sticker saying 'do not take literally'? No... it doesn't... which is why millions of people do take it literally. Just look at the Bible belt in America where they spent £100m on this... Which is why my point regarding kangaroos is relevant despite you dismissing it! Noah did not know America, South America, large parts of Africa, large parts of Asia and Australasia existed... let alone what unique animals were there. How did the unique wildlife of Australia survive the flood if Noah didn't sail thousands of miles to pick them up from a continent he didn't know existed and then drop them off again? There is no evidence of kangaroos migrating in either direction. What’s your point then? You’re denying the flood happened, “the world” in bible area and times is not the world as we know it in 2020. Parts of it were still undiscovered 300 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 It’s a simple yes or no question If a fish can become a human Can fish stay a fish and adapt to its surroundings? No, not in 4,000 years! Humans common ancestor with fish is 375 million years ago, huge amounts of change can happen in 375 million years of natural selection but not in 4,000 years. Can you not see the vast difference in evolutionary scale between 4 thousand years and 375 million years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 What’s your point then? You’re denying the flood happened, “the world” in bible area and times is not the world as we know it in 2020. Parts of it were still undiscovered 300 years ago The point is clear... Noah did not know America, South America, large parts of Africa, large parts of Asia and Australasia existed... let alone what unique animals were there. How did the unique wildlife of Australia survive the flood if Noah didn't sail thousands of miles to pick them up from a continent he didn't know existed and then drop them off again? There is no evidence of kangaroos migrating in either direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 No, not in 4,000 years! Humans common ancestor with fish is 375 million years ago, huge amounts of change can happen in 375 million years of natural selection but not in 4,000 years. Can you not see the vast difference in evolutionary scale between 4 thousand years and 375 million years? You do know a fish staying a fish is not evolution. A fish becoming an entirely different specie is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 The point is clear... Noah did not know America, South America, large parts of Africa, large parts of Asia and Australasia existed... let alone what unique animals were there. How did the unique wildlife of Australia survive the flood if Noah didn't sail thousands of miles to pick them up from a continent he didn't know existed and then drop them off again? There is no evidence of kangaroos migrating in either direction. So you agree with me then. Thanks for admitting I’m right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 You do know a fish staying a fish is not evolution. A fish becoming an entirely different specie is. What are your talking about? That does not address the post of mine you quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 What are your talking about? That does not address the post of mine you quoted. If a fish is still a fish that isn’t evolution. A fish that becomes a human is evolution. It’s not hard Matthew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 So you agree with me then. Thanks for admitting I’m right. I did not agree with you. The Bible talks of a global flood that covered mountains, Noah did not know about the animals living in the Americas, Australia and other parts of the world so could not have saved them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 If a fish is still a fish that isn’t evolution. A fish that becomes a human is evolution. It’s not hard Matthew. Yes it is ffs Further evidence that you do not know what evolution is! You say it is 'not hard Matthew' but you appear to not be able to understand the basics of biology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Did you take naps during biology lessons at school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 Did you take naps during biology lessons at school? He dear, getting personal now, you’re struggling aren’t you. Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 May, 2020 Share Posted 21 May, 2020 No, because they would be evidence in the fossil record and DNA sequence... and there isn't. How do you definitively know from a fossil fish what environment it inhabited ? What part of the DNA sequence identifies the physiological adaptations necessary for a specific aquatic environment ? Salt-water fish lose water to their surroundings through osmosis, freshwater fish do not. Q} How do you tell that from either the fossil record or DNA analysis ? A} You can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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