The Reform Thread

[egg]

1 minute ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Good on him for seeing the light, plenty of others are as well https://www.markpack.org.uk/175342/how-many-councillors-has-reform-uk-lost-since-may/

https://www.cornish-times.co.uk/news/cornwall-councillor-resigns-from-reform-uk-to-become-independent-840021

That’s without the behavioural issues and racism. This is just one locality, there’s page upon page of it https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/people/northampton-reform-uk-councillor-who-tweeted-racist-and-sexist-remarks-calls-for-schools-to-teach-children-responsible-smartphone-use-5361595

https://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/news/people/corby-reform-councillor-resigns-over-serious-racism-allegations-5289085

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62541w6548o

 

He's a good bloke and I'm surprised he ever got tied up them. Credit to him, and others, for realising their error.

[tdmickey3]

9 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

With a Facebook advertising budget bigger than the other parties put together and funded by very shady sources even Pompey would say no to.

Don't forget the super successful "we want out country back" marches, flag waving and violence outside hotels, it was a great outcome because the did get their country back didn't they... 🤣

[Gloucester Saint]

If they go back to being a pro-business centre right party and throw the rest of the ERG into Reform, they have a chance to at least leapfrog Reform before the next GE https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly7l65xy23o

[Weston Super Saint]

6 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Don't forget the super successful "we want out country back" marches, flag waving and violence outside hotels, it was a great outcome because the did get their country back didn't they... 🤣

As opposed to the BLM marches that resolved all racism?

(playing devil's advocate).

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

If they go back to being a pro-business centre right party and throw the rest of the ERG into Reform, they have a chance to at least leapfrog Reform before the next GE https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly7l65xy23o

I don't think they stand a chance with Badenoch. Not terribly bright, and just unlikeable. 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

I don't think they stand a chance with Badenoch. Not terribly bright, and just unlikeable. 

She was on the fringes of the ERG crowd as well. They need a new group who aren’t tarnished by 2016-22.

[Sir Ralph]

22 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Do you wake up each morning intending to look for an argument ? From what I see, hear, and read, most Reform spokespeople are obnoxious, horrible, and extrenely disagreeable, cunts.

No but you just called a whole bunch of people obnoxious and you don’t expect someone to say something. If you agreed with their political stance you wouldn’t have said it so that’s really your motive

Edited 23 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

No but you just called a whole bunch of people obnoxious ,........

And I'm right.

[tdmickey3]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

And I'm right.

yes

 

[tdmickey3]

• Claire Mackie Brown: A Reform UK councillor who was reported to the police (following a public complaint) after an STV interview where she said it was "scary as someone 'who was born and bred here'" in reference to local unrest over asylum seekers, and later apologised for the comment.
• An unnamed senior councillor in a "car crash" interview: A video circulated showing a senior Reform councillor unable to answer a basic question about their portfolio and relationship with East Midlands Airport (EMA), admitting they had "no idea".
• Kent County Council leadership issues: Leaked audio and subsequent expulsions of several councillors in Kent, where the group leader, Linden Kemkaran, was heard swearing and telling members to "f***ing suck it up" in a video meeting that some have compared to the viral "Jackie Weaver" incident.
• John Allen: A Reform UK councillor who was expelled from the party for allegedly making online comments threatening to shoot Prime Minister Keir Starmer.
• Other expulsions and resignations: A number of other councillors have been expelled or resigned in recent months over various issues, including sharing controversial social media content (like a Hitler meme), and internal disputes described as "chaos".

These incidents have led to significant media coverage and criticism, with the party's opponents branding their governance and some interviews as a "joke" or "complete

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

 If you agreed with their political stance you wouldn’t have said it so that’s really your motive

I wouldn't agree with them if it was made compulsory, on pain of imprisonment.

My motive is to call out dangerous, incompetent, idiots, which almost all Reform councillors and MPs are.

Edited 22 hours ago by badgerx16

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

No but you just called a whole bunch of people obnoxious and you don’t expect someone to say something. If you agreed with their political stance you wouldn’t have said it so that’s really your motive

But those people are obnoxious, and have disagreeable views. It's not always that way - I admired Thatcher as a person, she carried herself with grace, but I despised her politics and policies. 

[Gloucester Saint]

21 minutes ago, egg said:

But those people are obnoxious, and have disagreeable views. It's not always that way - I admired Thatcher as a person, she carried herself with grace, but I despised her politics and policies. 

Family friends worked for her as PM and said she was the best boss they ever had. Would join in with the washing up after state dinners and always asked after their families, bought them thank you presents and cards. Took it out on the politicians around her but treated her staff really well and won loyalty.

Also worked cross party more than is recognised, Frank Field was her go-to on welfare policies. What I do remember is her reaction to disasters like Bradford. It was more than upset, it was anger.

Like you, her policies were a mixed bag although a lot more pragmatic than given credit for. Wasted the North Sea oil revenues on a credit boom that turned into a very nasty and lengthy recession. Compare it to Norway’s Sovereign Fund. Huge advantage wasted. But she got us a very good deal with Europe and the rebate, and Single Market she was a driving force behind. Had to deal with the unions where Labour bottled Castle’s in Place of Strife Castle reforms.

Gave a shit about the average person even if her policies didn’t always benefit them as much as they should have done.

Farage as latter day Thatcher? He can fuck off with his dodgy Russian money and army of councillors who can’t outlast Ange P at Forest

Edited 22 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Family friends worked for her as PM and said she was the best boss they ever had. Would join up with the washing up after state dinners and always asked after their families, bought them thank you presents and cards. Took it out on the politicians around her but treated her staff really well and won loyalty.

Also worked cross party more than is recognised, Frank Field was her go-to on welfare policies. What I do remember is her reaction to disasters like Bradford. It was more than upset, it was anger.

Like you, her policies were a mixed bag although a lot more pragmatic than given credit for. Wasted the North Sea oil revenues on a credit boom that turned into a very nasty and lengthy recession. Compare it to Norway’s Sovereign Fund. Huge advantage wasted. But she got us a very good deal with Europe and the rebate, and Single Market she was a driving force behind.

I hadn't appreciated that, but I'm not surprised. To be fair, my focus has always been on daft privatisations and sell offs which have cost us (and still do), but she did well re Europe. 

[Gloucester Saint]

The only other thing to say about Thatcher and Blair is that they both made proper policies. Maggie because pre-internet and SM she could really take charge and Blair built a policy unit in No 10 where highly lauded policies such as Sure Start came from. It took a much longer term view and both industry and our public services benefitted from it.

Cameron and Hilton, although Osborne and Cable warned him not to, abolished the Policy Unit and said ‘Maggie ran the show on a dozen staff’. They found out with a few months that the world was a lot more complex and difficult than the 1980s but too late by then. Would have avoided very costly disasters such as the Lansley Review in the NHD. 

Reform just don’t do this. I can’t stand Lowe but he 100% had a point. 

Edited 22 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

I hadn't appreciated that, but I'm not surprised. To be fair, my focus has always been on daft privatisations and sell offs which have cost us (and still do), but she did well re Europe. 

She shouldn’t have sold off the infrastructure, MacMillan warned her on that. If it can’t have competition, it’s not a market asset. Cost consumers dearly in the medium and long-term.

[Sir Ralph]

 

1 hour ago, tdmickey3 said:

• Claire Mackie Brown: A Reform UK councillor who was reported to the police (following a public complaint) after an STV interview where she said it was "scary as someone 'who was born and bred here'" in reference to local unrest over asylum seekers, and later apologised for the comment.
• An unnamed senior councillor in a "car crash" interview: A video circulated showing a senior Reform councillor unable to answer a basic question about their portfolio and relationship with East Midlands Airport (EMA), admitting they had "no idea".
• Kent County Council leadership issues: Leaked audio and subsequent expulsions of several councillors in Kent, where the group leader, Linden Kemkaran, was heard swearing and telling members to "f***ing suck it up" in a video meeting that some have compared to the viral "Jackie Weaver" incident.
• John Allen: A Reform UK councillor who was expelled from the party for allegedly making online comments threatening to shoot Prime Minister Keir Starmer.
• Other expulsions and resignations: A number of other councillors have been expelled or resigned in recent months over various issues, including sharing controversial social media content (like a Hitler meme), and internal disputes described as "chaos".

These incidents have led to significant media coverage and criticism, with the party's opponents branding their governance and some interviews as a "joke" or "complete

Most of these dont seem particularly bad to be honest (I thought you would find worse). This is getting into dangerous territory for any Labour supporter......if we produced a list it would probably crash this Forum.

Edited 21 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[tdmickey3]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

 

This is getting into dangerous territory for any Labour supporter......

Explain

[badgerx16]

Just now, tdmickey3 said:

Explain

Nobody EVER criticises Labour.

[tdmickey3]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

Nobody EVER criticises Labour.

Ah, got it

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Nobody EVER criticises Labour.

Is that what he means? He can't think that.

[Sir Ralph]

 

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

Is that what he means? He can't think that.

No I dont think that.

My point is that @tdmickey3 is trying to pick up a few relatively minor misdemeanours from the Reform Party to show how incompetent they are. If I did a list of Labour MP's and Cllrs who are in the proverbial at the moment for much more serious stuff I think it would say a lot. If Reform had misdemeanours coming out of their ears compared to other parties I would get the point, but I think the comparison exercise would prove another point.

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

 

No I dont think that.

My point is that @tdmickey3 is trying to pick up a few relatively minor misdemeanours from the Reform Party to show how incompetent they are. If I did a list of Labour MP's and Cllrs who are in the proverbial at the moment for much more serious stuff I think it would say a lot. If Reform had misdemeanours coming out of their ears compared to other parties I would get the point, but I think the comparison exercise would prove another point.

You seem very supportive of Reform - considering you are a remainer it seems an odd party to support.

Reform are constantly in trouble for extremely serious stuff. Just look at Pochin earlier this week - that's worse than what Rayner resigned for.

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

You only think that because they disagree with you. It doesn’t mean they are obnoxious. Differentiate between attacking the person and their view

Everyone that Reform have put in front of a camera so far I have found obnoxious. It isn’t only their views, they are genuinely all very unpleasant human beings (which probably explains why they have the views that they do).

Before Blair became the PM I found him to be an oily git. I found Ken Livingston to be an obnoxious character. In fact there are plenty of people left of centre who I find obnoxious.

Yes, I found Goodwin’s views to be particularly unpleasant last night but the way he presented himself and his views made him particularly obnoxious in my view.

I was unaware of this person’s existence before last night’s QT so I googled him. I was led to a Facebook page where a poster had suggested that he would make a good PM. The number of posts supporting that view was frightening. Apparently he “tells it as it is”, is “well presented”, “says what we are all thinking but are too scared to say” , “he tells the truth.” You get the picture.

One person in the audience last night pointed out that he answered every question with a response about immigration. He was spot on, he did. He was arrogant. He lied. He constantly talked over the other panelist’s and shook his head when they disagreed with him. This idea that all of our problems stem from the people arriving here on rubber dinghies (only 4% of the total amount of immigrants) is all they have but they hammer home the point constantly and, as Farage did with Brexit, he has made it the major item on the political agenda as far as a large percentage of the public are concerned. He has no idea how to deal with immigration just as he had no idea how to run the country after Brexit. Farage, Tice, Anderson, Pochin, Jenkyns, Yusuf, Lowe (when he was in Reform and still as an independent), Goodwin, the woman who runs KCC all present as unpleasant individuals who trade in nothing but hate and division.

Edited 21 hours ago by sadoldgit

[tdmickey3]

28 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

 

No I dont think that.

My point is that @tdmickey3 is trying to pick up a few relatively minor misdemeanours from the Reform Party to show how incompetent they are. If I did a list of Labour MP's and Cllrs who are in the proverbial at the moment for much more serious stuff I think it would say a lot. If Reform had misdemeanours coming out of their ears compared to other parties I would get the point, but I think the comparison exercise would prove another point.

Give it time, but they are certainly closing the gap a speed, quite an achievement for a new lot

[Sir Ralph]

38 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

You seem very supportive of Reform - considering you are a remainer it seems an odd party to support.

Reform are constantly in trouble for extremely serious stuff. Just look at Pochin earlier this week - that's worse than what Rayner resigned for.

I voted remain (not a strong remainer but one nonetheless) but for various reasons I’m considering voting reform. I’m aware of the potential downfalls but I think we need to see the shape of the party in a couple of years time.  The point that Pochin made was a fair one she just said it clumsily. What rayner did was a lot worse in my opinion. 
 

What extremely serious stuff have they done out of interest?

Edited 21 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

20 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Give it time, but they are certainly closing the gap a speed, quite an achievement for a new lot

So they aren’t worse then - you speculate they might but, respectfully, that’s speculation and doesn’t count for anything. 

Edited 20 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

32 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Everyone that Reform have put in front of a camera so far I have found obnoxious. It isn’t only their views, they are genuinely all very unpleasant human beings (which probably explains why they have the views that they do).

Before Blair became the PM I found him to be an oily git. I found Ken Livingston to be an obnoxious character. In fact there are plenty of people left of centre who I find obnoxious.

Yes, I found Goodwin’s views to be particularly unpleasant last night but the way he presented himself and his views made him particularly obnoxious in my view.

I was unaware of this person’s existence before last night’s QT so I googled him. I was led to a Facebook page where a poster had suggested that he would make a good PM. The number of posts supporting that view was frightening. Apparently he “tells it as it is”, is “well presented”, “says what we are all thinking but are too scared to say” , “he tells the truth.” You get the picture.

One person in the audience last night pointed out that he answered every question with a response about immigration. He was spot on, he did. He was arrogant. He lied. He constantly talked over the other panelist’s and shook his head when they disagreed with him. This idea that all of our problems stem from the people arriving here on rubber dinghies (only 4% of the total amount of immigrants) is all they have but they hammer home the point constantly and, as Farage did with Brexit, he has made it the major item on the political agenda as far as a large percentage of the public are concerned. He has no idea how to deal with immigration just as he had no idea how to run the country after Brexit. Farage, Tice, Anderson, Pochin, Jenkyns, Yusuf, Lowe (when he was in Reform and still as an independent), Goodwin, the woman who runs KCC all present as unpleasant individuals who trade in nothing but hate and division.

Fair enough - I can’t disagree if that’s your experience of them.

[spyinthesky]

24 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Everyone that Reform have put in front of a camera so far I have found obnoxious. It isn’t only their views, they are genuinely all very unpleasant human beings (which probably explains why they have the views that they do).

Before Blair became the PM I found him to be an oily git. I found Ken Livingston to be an obnoxious character. In fact there are plenty of people left of centre who I find obnoxious.

Yes, I found Goodwin’s views to be particularly unpleasant last night but the way he presented himself and his views made him particularly obnoxious in my view.

I was unaware of this person’s existence before last night’s QT so I googled him. I was led to a Facebook page where a poster had suggested that he would make a good PM. The number of posts supporting that view was frightening. Apparently he “tells it as it is”, is “well presented”, “says what we are all thinking but are too scared to say” , “he tells the truth.” You get the picture.

One person in the audience last night pointed out that he answered every question with a response about immigration. He was spot on, he did. He was arrogant. He lied. He constantly talked over the other panelist’s and shook his head when they disagreed with him. This idea that all of our problems stem from the people arriving here on rubber dinghies (only 4% of the total amount of immigrants) is all they have but they hammer home the point constantly and, as Farage did with Brexit, he has made it the major item on the political agenda as far as a large percentage of the public are concerned. He has no idea how to deal with immigration just as he had no idea how to run the country after Brexit. Farage, Tice, Anderson, Pochin, Jenkyns, Yusuf, Lowe (when he was in Reform and still as an independent), Goodwin, the woman who runs KCC all present as unpleasant individuals who trade in nothing but hate and division.

People sometimes complain about bias at the BBC but Matt Goodwin, the GB News Presenter on last night's 'Question Time' was so Far Right Wing, he nearly fell off the end of the Flat Earth.
Personally I do have a sliver of understanding for some of Reforms policies but am truly horrified by some of the ne'er do well's the party attracts.
That said, what is the option?
Tories are in complete disarray after Boris & Truss, Greens have a radical left wing leader, Lib Dems have a weak leader only noticeable by his political stunts and Labour are floundering and about to introduce a Labour Relations Act which will allow the Unions to flex their muscles again and make businesses even more difficult to operate.

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

I voted remain (not a strong remainer but one nonetheless) but for various reasons I’m considering voting reform. I’m aware of the potential downfalls but I think we need to see the shape of the party in a couple of years time.  The point that Pochin made was a fair one she just said it clumsily. What rayner did was a lot worse in my opinion. 

So let me get this right. 

You have been rinsing Labour since day dot on their lack of business friendly policies and have deemed them unfit to govern.

In the meantime you're looking to vote for a leader that led the biggest act of economic harm this country has ever seen (followed by Truss's mini-budget), that has left this country in the worst position it has been in since the 1970s, and you wonder why I continuously question your understanding of economics.

Can I ask what economic policies you are looking forward to under Reform?

 

[Turkish]

7 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Why do you continually subject yourself to watching / reading things about Reform / other political parties you don't like and have no interest in?

Is it so you can constantly complain about them?

Its hilarious isn't it. The constant references to people he doesn't like, the constant watching things he disagrees with, the endless moaning about how terrible everything is, it's really highly amusing that someone would dedicate so much time to something they dont like.

[tdmickey3]

14 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

So they aren’t worse then - you speculate they might but, respectfully, that’s speculation and doesn’t count for anything. 

As i said, they will be.

They consist of a huge amount of racist scum.... do you support that?

Accusing someone of speculation is pretty rich coming from you, you spent ages on another thread (the labour one) speculating on how things will turn out but all of it is just your odd opinion and lots of it proven by other more knowledgeable posters to be rubbish

[Sir Ralph]

26 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

So let me get this right. 

You have been rinsing Labour since day dot on their lack of business friendly policies and have deemed them unfit to govern.

In the meantime you're looking to vote for a leader that led the biggest act of economic harm this country has ever seen (followed by Truss's mini-budget), that has left this country in the worst position it has been in since the 1970s, and you wonder why I continuously question your understanding of economics.

Can I ask what economic policies you are looking forward to under Reform?

 

When I voted in the Referendum for Remain, I would have voted Tory as they aligned with my world view at the time (not UKIP).

Brexit has happened and, whilst I didnt vote for it, it that is the world we are in. With age your world view changes and I think that economics is important but so is your cultural view of the country and what you perceive to be right / wrong and fair / unfair. These are your moral values. With the Tories now in oblivion and being a shiteshow, on balance I would say that Reform may be closer to my values as a whole, which is why I may vote for them.

In terms of Labour I see little that I align myself with, including economically and culturally. There is the odd thing they do which I agree with but mainly I dont align my values with them.

Reforms policies are not fully detailed at the moment which is why I would want to see them in full, but their overall approach to the economy is to reduce tax liability and reduce public spending where appropriate. Welfare reform, NHS reform, and a number of other approaches are what align more closely with my beliefs. I'm aware they wont be able to fulfill them all but I prefer their overall policy stance (which at this stage of the election cycle is all you can typically go on for a party not in power). Also I have lots of friends voted to Remain and are now voting Reform for the same reasons I have said so its not that unusual. Have you read their policy position as a vast majority of former Tory voters (like you) are now saying they will vote for Reform? 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

20 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

As i said, they will be.

They consist of a huge amount of racist scum.... do you support that?

Accusing someone of speculation is pretty rich coming from you, you spent ages on another thread (the labour one) speculating on how things will turn out but all of it is just your odd opinion and lots of it proven by other more knowledgeable posters to be rubbish

Do you support this? Only party I’m aware of that. Is institutionally racist….or does this not count? https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/investigation-into-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party.pdf
 

Also give specific examples of Reform being found to be racist…..

Edited 20 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[tdmickey3]

5 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Do you support this? Only party I’m aware of that. Is institutionally racist….or does this not count? https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/investigation-into-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party.pdf
 

Also give specific examples of Reform being found to be racist…..

Lots have been shown on here and across media but you know that of course.

I cant be bothered to post them again to indulge you...

[Sir Ralph]

9 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Lots have been shown on here and across media but you know that of course.

I cant be bothered to post them again to indulge you...

So no then! You’re not indulging me - you made the point!
 

Interesting to see who the real racists are unless you think anti- semitism isn’t “real racism”

Edited 20 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

32 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Do you support this? Only party I’m aware of that. Is institutionally racist….or does this not count? https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/investigation-into-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party.pdf
 

Also give specific examples of Reform being found to be racist…..

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53096-do-britons-think-reform-uk-are-racist

"A new YouGov survey conducted for ITV Peston finds that more than four in ten Britons consider the Reform UK party (47%), policies (46%) and voters (43%) to be “generally racist”."

 

https://eastmidlands.unison.org.uk/news/article/2025/08/reform-uk-must-disown-racism-after-councillors-vile-behaviour/

 

https://news.sky.com/story/reform-uk-drops-three-candidates-as-racism-row-constinues-to-engulf-party-13160889

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2025/04/30/reform-uk-facebook-groups-are-full-of-racist-far-right-posts-and-islamophobic-conspiracy-theories/

 

And of course Labour are anti-semitic, it's why they have at least 12 Jewish MPs, as is Starmer's wife.

Edited 19 hours ago by badgerx16

[Sir Ralph]

36 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53096-do-britons-think-reform-uk-are-racist

"A new YouGov survey conducted for ITV Peston finds that more than four in ten Britons consider the Reform UK party (47%), policies (46%) and voters (43%) to be “generally racist”."

 

https://eastmidlands.unison.org.uk/news/article/2025/08/reform-uk-must-disown-racism-after-councillors-vile-behaviour/

 

https://news.sky.com/story/reform-uk-drops-three-candidates-as-racism-row-constinues-to-engulf-party-13160889

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2025/04/30/reform-uk-facebook-groups-are-full-of-racist-far-right-posts-and-islamophobic-conspiracy-theories/

 

And of course Labour are anti-semitic, it's why they have at least 12 Jewish MPs, as is Starmer's wife.

So there are incidences of Reform Cllrs being racist so I can accept that some maybe but I don’t believe the majority. The you gov survey is a perception surveys not facts.
 

To say that Labour is not racist is laughable when an investigation produced a report which said they are racist - what further evidence do you need? Some Jewish MPs were in the party even at the time of the investigation. I could say that because Reform have Zia Yusuf they aren’t racist at all. I think the point is that this “holier than thou” attitude is bollocks

Edited 19 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

18 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

So there are incidences of Reform Cllrs being racist so I can accept that some maybe but I don’t believe the majority. The you gov survey is a perception surveys not facts.
 

To say that Labour is not racist is laughable when an investigation produced a report which said they are racist - what further evidence do you need? Some Jewish MPs were in the party even at the time of the investigation. I could say that because Reform have Zia Yusuf they aren’t racist at all. I think the point is that this “holier than thou” attitude is bollocks

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

When I voted in the Referendum for Remain, I would have voted Tory as they aligned with my world view at the time (not UKIP).

Brexit has happened and, whilst I didnt vote for it, it that is the world we are in. With age your world view changes and I think that economics is important but so is your cultural view of the country and what you perceive to be right / wrong and fair / unfair. These are your moral values. With the Tories now in oblivion and being a shiteshow, on balance I would say that Reform may be closer to my values as a whole, which is why I may vote for them.

In terms of Labour I see little that I align myself with, including economically and culturally. There is the odd thing they do which I agree with but mainly I dont align my values with them.

Reforms policies are not fully detailed at the moment which is why I would want to see them in full, but their overall approach to the economy is to reduce tax liability and reduce public spending where appropriate. Welfare reform, NHS reform, and a number of other approaches are what align more closely with my beliefs. I'm aware they wont be able to fulfill them all but I prefer their overall policy stance (which at this stage of the election cycle is all you can typically go on for a party not in power). Also I have lots of friends voted to Remain and are now voting Reform for the same reasons I have said so its not that unusual. Have you read their policy position as a vast majority of former Tory voters (like you) are now saying they will vote for Reform? 

 

Yeah, they want to do what Lettuce Liz did, but on a bigger scale (almost doubled). The markets will love that. The below is worth a read:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyx4v44438o

They detailed a lot of their policies at the last election that they are planning to carry on, however due to them literally just making up numbers as they go along any economic conversation with them in has been a farce - all the fiscal think tanks have criticised their plans. You also say you run your own company (LTD, Sole Trader, LLP) - how is that run because I think you'd do well to think about how their changes may affect your business?

So what do you align with from a Reform point of view? I'm interested as you think that racism is less serious than tax avoidance (one being illegal and one not).

Edited 17 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

9 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yeah, they want to do what Lettuce Liz did, but on a bigger scale (almost doubled). The markets will love that. The below is worth a read:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyx4v44438o

They detailed a lot of their policies at the last election that they are planning to carry on, however due to them literally just making up numbers as they go along any economic conversation with them in has been a farce - all the fiscal think tanks have criticised their plans. You also say you run your own company (LTD, Sole Trader, LLP) - how is that run because I think you'd do well to think about how their changes may affect your company.

So what do you align with from a Reform point of view? I'm interested as you think that racism is less serious than tax avoidance (one being illegal and one not).

https://ifs.org.uk/news/response-mornings-reform-uk-policy-announcements

The IFS have been asking Tice (who has a bit more capacity for detail than Farage - very low bar albeit) to make a bit more of a plan around the economy https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-reform-manifesto-tax-cuts-economy-b2844223.html

Interesting analysis on the forthcoming about avoiding it becoming a Groundhog Day https://ifs.org.uk/news/doing-bare-minimum-budget-would-risk-another-fiscal-groundhog-day-next-year