The Burnham Years - Can the new(ish) broom sweep clean?

[egg]

Have people not worked out that Ossie is enjoying the sport. 

[LuckyNumber7]

13 hours ago, aintforever said:

Or maybe both us and the EU would be better off if it wasn’t for Brexit?

The EU is certainly worse off as we were the second biggest net contributor, hence their tears when we left. Our money was paying for roads to be built in Poland while our own country was crumbling. 

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

So why did you vote Remain ?

I said above, I valued economic stability and I didn’t trust the inept political class to actually make a success of it. 
 

I was also quite naive at the time; I didn’t realise just how corrupt and evil the EU/globalists are. But they’ve shown their hand in recent years. 
 

I want nothing to do with those evil Marxists now. 

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

I said above, I valued economic stability and I didn’t trust the inept political class to actually make a success of it. 
 

I was also quite naive at the time; I didn’t realise just how corrupt and evil the EU/globalists are. But they’ve shown their hand in recent years. 
 

I want nothing to do with those evil Marxists now. 

It's just that I know a few Leavers who regret their vote, but you are the first that I am aware of who voted Remain but would now change.

[iansums]

23 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

It's just that I know a few Leavers who regret their vote, but you are the first that I am aware of who voted Remain but would now change.

Second, I've said the same.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

30 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

It's just that I know a few Leavers who regret their vote, but you are the first that I am aware of who voted Remain but would now change.

As we were getting into the negotiations, well after the vote, and there was a level of vitriol from the EU about how they would treat us, I knew a few people who crossed over from remain to leavers.

There were still quite a few that were more bothered about the Maastricht Treaty, and thought after that was a bad idea. Some voted remain grudgingly, but weren't massively upset about it going the other way.

[Farmer Saint]

11 minutes ago, iansums said:

Second, I've said the same.

Genuinely perplexed by this - why? We're significantly poorer, with higher costs, higher unemployment and much higher illegal migration. What trumps those cons?

[Osvaldorama]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Genuinely perplexed by this - why? We're significantly poorer, with higher costs, higher unemployment and much higher illegal migration. What trumps those cons?

Key thing is sovereignty. 

EU has shown they’re a toxic, bloated, corrupt, expensive, disgusting organisation. 

I’m now more than happy to accept short term economic pain for longer term gain of re-establishing our nation without foreign influence. 
Some things are more important than money. Our nation, culture and identity is more than an homogenous economic zone. (And so are all the other European nations.) Every single European nation deserves better governance and independence from Brussels bureaucracy. 

I know quite a lot of people that feel the same way. 

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Key thing is sovereignty. 

EU has shown they’re a toxic, bloated, corrupt, expensive, disgusting organisation. 

I’m now more than happy to accept short term economic pain for longer term gain of re-establishing our nation without foreign influence. 
Some things are more important than money. Our nation, culture and identity is more than an homogenous economic zone. (And so are all the other European nations.) Every single European nation deserves better governance and independence from Brussels bureaucracy. 

I know quite a lot of people that feel the same way. 

How has sovereignty (or autonomy) helped us as a country? 

The issue is that we have the pain, but are we more or less likely to grow alone or as part of a collective? Given how our economy has shrunk (I assume you accept the Stanford paper) post vote/Brexit, and is barely treading water (and we're actually a bit fucked - on that you and I agree), how realistic is it that we'll feel a gain over the wider EU states? I just don't see it. 

[Farmer Saint]

14 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Key thing is sovereignty. 

EU has shown they’re a toxic, bloated, corrupt, expensive, disgusting organisation. 

I’m now more than happy to accept short term economic pain for longer term gain of re-establishing our nation without foreign influence. 
Some things are more important than money. Our nation, culture and identity is more than an homogenous economic zone. (And so are all the other European nations.) Every single European nation deserves better governance and independence from Brussels bureaucracy. 

I know quite a lot of people that feel the same way. 

I disagree vehemently with this - sovereignty has become toxic because it's synonymous with racial intolerance.

I guarantee people wouldn't care anywhere near as much if we had more money in our pockets.

If you don't care about money, surely getting rid of foreign billionaires diluting our sovereignty is a good thing?

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I disagree vehemently with this - sovereignty has become toxic because it's synonymous with racial intolerance.

I guarantee people wouldn't care anywhere near as much if we had more money in our pockets.

If you don't care about money, surely getting rid of foreign billionaires diluting our sovereignty is a good thing?

You stole my next point!! 

Sovereignty has become conflated with something very unpleasant. 

[Osvaldorama]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

You stole my next point!! 

Sovereignty has become conflated with something very unpleasant. 

Only to those that can’t think for themselves and regurgitate whatever the bbc tells them 

[Osvaldorama]

lol. Right on cue I just saw this:

 

 

I believe that most political institutions across Europe no longer work for the people, and only serve corrupt elites and bureaucrats at the top. 
(In much the same way that Britain has been sold out)

Sovereignty to me means putting as much control in the hands of our own elected officials as possible. 

To be clear, I don’t necessarily trust them to get things right, but I’d stilll rather have our own politicians in complete control with as little foreign interference as possible.
 

The more decentralised the power structures, the better for the average citizen, in my opinion. 

[badgerx16]

Given that all the major issues facing the UK are extra-territorial ; illegal immigration, Trump, Russian expansionism, climate change, global financial integration, AI, etc, how does lifting the drawbridge, declaring "Sovereignty"  and aggravating our nearest neighbours suit us better than building partnerships and being "inside the tent, pissing out" ?

[Osvaldorama]

25 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Given that all the major issues facing the UK are extra-territorial ; illegal immigration, Trump, Russian expansionism, climate change, global financial integration, AI, etc, how does lifting the drawbridge, declaring "Sovereignty"  and aggravating our nearest neighbours suit us better than building partnerships and being "inside the tent, pissing out" ?

Having better control of our justice & political system doesn’t mean we are pulling up the drawbridge. 
It leads to a stronger, better Britain which is more useful as an ally to those we care about. 

Anyway, Brexit is really boring, can we go back to arguing about how terrible Labour are please 🙏 

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Having better control of our justice & political system doesn’t mean we are pulling up the drawbridge. 
It leads to a stronger, better Britain which is more useful as an ally to those we care about. 

Anyway, Brexit is really boring, can we go back to arguing about how terrible Labour are please 🙏