david in sweden Posted 11 February, 2009 Share Posted 11 February, 2009 ....at this end of the league ?,..... the answer is probably - not a lot! But his week we've seen the (predictable) sacking of Adams at Pomp*y, but who'd bet that a manager whose team was ONLY 4th in the Premiership would also go ? Obviously the demands on the top managers is something few of us can imagine. Clubs are less tolerant and the fans more impatient than we were years ago. Just think if Lawrie McMenemy had been sacked after his first disasterous season when we were relegated. Within a couple of seasons he'd prepared a team for the Cup Final, and two years later regained top level status. The look at all those famous names we had; Osgood, Ball; Keegan; Shilton and Watson. 1983-84 was Saints best-ever season - when we NEARLY won the title.......but today what would have happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Forever Posted 11 February, 2009 Share Posted 11 February, 2009 A manager who knows that letting his best players play for direct opposition is wrong. A manager who is fully able to play players in their positions and not anywhere but. A manager who knows when a young player needs to be rested because of lost confidence Above all a manager who can get players into the club that are superior to those we have now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 11 February, 2009 Share Posted 11 February, 2009 Win home games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 11 February, 2009 Share Posted 11 February, 2009 ....at this end of the league ?,..... the answer is probably - not a lot! But his week we've seen the (predictable) sacking of Adams at Pomp*y, but who'd bet that a manager whose team was ONLY 4th in the Premiership would also go ? Obviously the demands on the top managers is something few of us can imagine. Clubs are less tolerant and the fans more impatient than we were years ago. Just think if Lawrie McMenemy had been sacked after his first disasterous season when we were relegated. Within a couple of seasons he'd prepared a team for the Cup Final, and two years later regained top level status. The look at all those famous names we had; Osgood, Ball; Keegan; Shilton and Watson. 1983-84 was Saints best-ever season - when we NEARLY won the title.......but today what would have happened? I completely understand your point David but the circumstances are different. We have a chairman that completely divides the whole club, the manager may have been given more time if he wasn't part of the chairmans master plan that cost us the services of Pearson! Its the chairman not the manager killing this club! Ps. could you see lowe signing any one of the legends you've listed?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 11 February, 2009 Share Posted 11 February, 2009 ....at this end of the league ?,..... the answer is probably - not a lot! But his week we've seen the (predictable) sacking of Adams at Pomp*y, but who'd bet that a manager whose team was ONLY 4th in the Premiership would also go ? Obviously the demands on the top managers is something few of us can imagine. Clubs are less tolerant and the fans more impatient than we were years ago. Just think if Lawrie McMenemy had been sacked after his first disasterous season when we were relegated. Within a couple of seasons he'd prepared a team for the Cup Final, and two years later regained top level status. The look at all those famous names we had; Osgood, Ball; Keegan; Shilton and Watson. 1983-84 was Saints best-ever season - when we NEARLY won the title.......but today what would have happened? this is completely different from the lawrie mac days,the money pumped into football by sky etc has put the pressure on the clubs and managers. the clubs at the top of the prem have pressure on them to win things,the rest of the prem has the pressure of staying in the league where the money is and the rest of the teams who are not in the prem have the pressure on them to get there. the fans have very little patience because they want their team in the prem where the money is so they can watch the big teams and the best players. the facts are successful managers keep their jobs,but one small hiccup will see them lose their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offix Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 what should we expect from a manager.. How about; A basic understanding of the game A basic understanding of tactics A basic understanding of English football A basic respect for the fans A basic ability for man management A minimal amount of "spine" to stand up to the boss when needed Just a few "basic" things, all which we have missed too long now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 13 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 13 February, 2009 this is completely different from the lawrie mac days,the money pumped into football by sky etc has put the pressure on the clubs and managers. the clubs at the top of the prem have pressure on them to win things,the rest of the prem has the pressure of staying in the league where the money is and the rest of the teams who are not in the prem have the pressure on them to get there. the fans have very little patience because they want their team in the prem where the money is so they can watch the big teams and the best players. the facts are successful managers keep their jobs,but one small hiccup will see them lose their jobs. Thanks for the response Lordswood .......and also Saint Jason....... I was being a bit philosophical. It's ironic that everyone seems to be in a state of total panic (not good for the blood pressure or the bank balance) when it's fairly obvious that it does take time to develop and bring a good team together. Players come and go, get injured, have personal problems (like everyone else) and go off form , and it doesn't help the manager's vision or planning. Losing one or more key players totally destroys a teams balance. Rupert Lowe's record of managerial appointments is only made worse by the list of dismissals since. But team do rise from the ashes (sorry wrong sport ).... like a Phoenix and surely we must give Wotte a fair chance and if he is any good at all then we'll see an upturn. Even if he uses unknown talent to do it. IF HE fails, it would hardly be his fault but squarely on the shoulders of the members on the Board. My real point is that whether it's the Saints boardroom.....or Chelseas it's still panic. For Chelsea it seems, being 4th in the Premiership is tant amount to sitting at the bottom of the CCC. For indeed it is - the top 4-5 shouldn't be in the Prem. but in some sort of Euro super League where they can play each other 4 or 5 times a season and pay everyone £100 K / week, for the rest of us in the League(s) - reality is their overdraft!. Whether it's £6 million, or £600 mill. it's just as real a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del boy Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 Just think if Lawrie McMenemy had been sacked after his first disasterous season when we were relegated. Within a couple of seasons he'd prepared a team for the Cup Final, and two years later regained top level status That sort of support for a manager seems to be a thing of the past - I guess Moyes/Everton and Coppell/Reading are are more recent examples though, even Sir Alex had a couple of mediocre 11th position finishes in his early years at Utd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 ....at this end of the league ?,..... the answer is probably - not a lot! But his week we've seen the (predictable) sacking of Adams at Pomp*y, but who'd bet that a manager whose team was ONLY 4th in the Premiership would also go ? Obviously the demands on the top managers is something few of us can imagine. Clubs are less tolerant and the fans more impatient than we were years ago. Just think if Lawrie McMenemy had been sacked after his first disasterous season when we were relegated. Within a couple of seasons he'd prepared a team for the Cup Final, and two years later regained top level status. The look at all those famous names we had; Osgood, Ball; Keegan; Shilton and Watson. 1983-84 was Saints best-ever season - when we NEARLY won the title.......but today what would have happened? If we could have maintained the backing of the manager with Chris Nichol after McMenemy left then our whole recent history could have been different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Charteris Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 From the OS "...we have to ensure that we don't concede a goal and are more clinical with our finishing. If we can improve our way of playing in both boxes then I think we will get better results." There you have it. What more could you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del boy Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 The problem with this is, it leads some to think you should persist with any manager and in the long term it will help. An argument used by many to keep Burley here and it caused a lot of harm. The trick is to back the right manager long term. Very hard to do of course, especially now when the fallout from relegation so high. Board members have to look after their interests understandably and can't let someone guide them to relegation. It's just not a long term sport anymore. But certainly, if you have a manager you believe in, who clearly can get the best out the team, I'd stick with them. I'd have forgiven strachan a relegation if he'd stayed for instance, seeing if he could get us back up. But I suppose that's easy to say now. Maybe Wotte could do well over 5 or 6 years. Not sure I'm that up for finding out. Meanwhile, I'd easily back MLT 4 or 5 years in the job regardless of results. Well yes, you're right - it doesnt mean to say that sticking with a manager as a policy is right in itself - the trick is the stay with the right one. The Scolari example was amazing - I think he lost about 4 games in 7 months - OUT. With their newly announced £66Mill loss for the year (not including Scolari's pay off) perhaps they will have to go more for a youth/academy approach with an up and coming but inexperienced manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpb Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 Clubs are less tolerant and the fans more impatient than we were years ago. Just think if Lawrie McMenemy had been sacked after his first disasterous season when we were relegated. Within a couple of seasons he'd prepared a team for the Cup Final, and two years later regained top level status. There were plenty of people who wanted to get rid of McMenemy at the time. Luckily message boards weren't around back then - this one would have gone into meltdown! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 I've just about had enough of Wotte already. There has been no improvement whatsoever...... More often than not, a new manager will have an instant effect however there has just been more of the same under Wotte. It could be argued that he should be given time to settle in but seeing as he's been here all along I think that argument is negated. But what is really starting to grate with me and get right on my tits is the constant stream of propaganda as Wotte opines on every subject under the sun. In the last day or so we have been treated to his opinion of Hiddink, his thoughts on players going out on Friday night, his delight at seeing Hod at Staplewood and his belief that anyone can beat anyone in this league. Well I've got news for Mr Wotte on that last subject.........ANYONE CAN BEAT US, WE CAN'T BEAT ANYONE! I would be far more receptive to our new manager's thoughts if he started getting some results and we began to claw our way out of the mire in which we are currently entrenched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 I've just about had enough of Wotte already. There has been no improvement whatsoever...... More often than not, a new manager will have an instant effect however there has just been more of the same under Wotte. It could be argued that he should be given time to settle in but seeing as he's been here all along I think that argument is negated. But what is really starting to grate with me and get right on my tits is the constant stream of propaganda as Wotte opines on every subject under the sun. In the last day or so we have been treated to his opinion of Hiddink, his thoughts on players going out on Friday night, his delight at seeing Hod at Staplewood and his belief that anyone can beat anyone in this league. Well I've got news for Mr Wotte on that last subject.........ANYONE CAN BEAT US, WE CAN'T BEAT ANYONE! I would be far more receptive to our new manager's thoughts if he started getting some results and we began to claw our way out of the mire in which we are currently entrenched. Get behind getting behind not liking the bloke for having a voice box, ffs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketphilly Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 what should we expect from a manager.. How about; A basic understanding of the game A basic understanding of tactics A basic understanding of English football A basic respect for the fans A basic ability for man management A minimal amount of "spine" to stand up to the boss when needed Just a few "basic" things, all which we have missed too long now. Nonsense! A manager should have expertise not a basic understanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 Get behind getting behind not liking the bloke for having a voice box, ffs!! Coming soon on the OS........... Mark Wotte's opinions on the best restaurants in Southampton. Mark Wotte on the Middle East. Mark Wotte's sudoku tips. Not coming soon on the OS...... Mark Wotte praising his team for 5 straight wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 Coming soon on the OS........... Mark Wotte's opinions on the best restaurants in Southampton. Mark Wotte on the Middle East. Mark Wotte's sudoku tips. Not coming soon on the OS...... Mark Wotte praising his team for 5 straight wins. I would like to see Mark Wotte photochopped and putting the letters on the board in Countdown. Can it be done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 What should we expect from a manager? well, a reall desire to win. A tough colour-sergeant no-nonsense approach. knowledge of the CCC and what makes it different to other leagues. Now let me see... qualities that Nigel Pearson had a-plenty. LOWE OUT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 13 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 13 February, 2009 If we could have maintained the backing of the manager with Chris Nichol after McMenemy left then our whole recent history could have been different. Well yes I agree with that ........except I could say ..... if we had maintained the backing of the manager .....after Strachan..... ....the whole recent history could have been ......! (oh well thats history, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 13 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 13 February, 2009 No expectation in terms of points/wins/games, that's all dependent on other things. All I expect is a manager getting the most out of his resources. Or at least looking like he will over a longer period of time. I don't see how else a manager can be judged. On that basis, Strachan got huge amounts out of his squad. Maybe didn't spend all money that well, but overall, fantastic job. Sturrock didn't have time to show it either way. Wigley had huge injury problems, but didn't get the best out of his squad. Redknapp had far fewer injuries, some great players, some money and more time, but never got the best out of those resources. Burley had very good players for the CCC, and more money than almost any CCC manager in the past few years, and never got the best out of those resources. Gorman continued that. Pearson slowly started to get the best out of what he had, although still made some strange decisions, like 4 central midfielders and picking Pericard and BWP over Saga. Poortvliet got a fair bit from his very limited resources early on, with some good football, but confidence and form fell, and a small squad was shown up. Later on I can't say he got the best out of them. Wotte again, with limited resources, seemed to get the best out of them for a couple of games, but it went wrong last time. I don't see persisting with DMG could be considered getting the best out of your resources though. Neither can ignoring Euell and Skacel. good assessment, Adrians .........but IMHO the side relegated wasn't really the worst in that league - but went out anyway. After that we started to lose the "stars" we had, and since then it's got worse, despite Burley's imports. With due respect to the current squad, we're already getting near the bottom of the barrel, and second class foreign imports, loans and free transfers don't make it better. Only hope they can seize the chance and the likes of Gasmi, Pulis and Smith will eventually show that they have some football in them and aren't just cardboard cut-outs wearing the shirt. JP, for all his efforts with Academy players, didn't have enough experienced players on the field at any one time. Having said that I think Davis and Perry, seemed to have got a second life and are doing well - all things considered. Pity the likes of Surman and Lallana, James, Gillett and Schneiderlin don't have 50 more games behind them, then we wouldn't be in this mess. Just when we could use the extra money ...there's none left ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 Well yes I agree with that ........except I could say ..... if we had maintained the backing of the manager .....after Strachan..... ....the whole recent history could have been ......! (oh well thats history, too History is a funny old thing but looking back we broke tradition by sacking Nichol. Basically we sacked someone for having a much better "bad spell" than McMenemy had endured years earlier. Had we kept faith in him he and the club would probably have gone on to do much better things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 13 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 13 February, 2009 History is a funny old thing but looking back we broke tradition by sacking Nichol. Basically we sacked someone for having a much better "bad spell" than McMenemy had endured years earlier. Had we kept faith in him he and the club would probably have gone on to do much better things. I agree ! JFP ......especially as we got Branfoot as a replacement! compared to him, Luggy and GB looked like Hollywood filmstars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 I agree ! JFP ......especially as we got Branfoot as a replacement! compared to him, Luggy and GB looked like Hollywood filmstars! It really is quite hard to look back now and think what could have been. A young manager in Chris Nichol was getting the job done in many ways. We felt entertained and he had quality players coming through. We always scored goals and we always let some in, but we loved it. If he had been given just a few more seasons to learn his trade we could still be just another manager on from him now instead of god knows how many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 If he had been given just a few more seasons to learn his trade we could still be just another manager on from him now instead of god knows how many. I think we're somewhat clutching at straws in trying to trace the root of our problems back to the sacking of Nicholl. There have been almost 20 years and a number of opportunities to sort things out!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 I think we're somewhat clutching at straws in trying to trace the root of our problems back to the sacking of Nicholl. There have been almost 20 years and a number of opportunities to sort things out!!! My point is that we went on the quick fix route when we sacked him and have pretty much been on it ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harwellsaint Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 he was called nigel pearson, thank you once again lowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harwellsaint Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 ....at this end of the league ?,..... the answer is probably - not a lot! But his week we've seen the (predictable) sacking of Adams at Pomp*y, but who'd bet that a manager whose team was ONLY 4th in the Premiership would also go ? Obviously the demands on the top managers is something few of us can imagine. Clubs are less tolerant and the fans more impatient than we were years ago. Just think if Lawrie McMenemy had been sacked after his first disasterous season when we were relegated. Within a couple of seasons he'd prepared a team for the Cup Final, and two years later regained top level status. The look at all those famous names we had; Osgood, Ball; Keegan; Shilton and Watson. 1983-84 was Saints best-ever season - when we NEARLY won the title.......but today what would have happened? he was called nigel pearson, thanks again lowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harwellsaint Posted 13 February, 2009 Share Posted 13 February, 2009 A manager who knows that letting his best players play for direct opposition is wrong. A manager who is fully able to play players in their positions and not anywhere but. A manager who knows when a young player needs to be rested because of lost confidence Above all a manager who can get players into the club that are superior to those we have now.. his name was nigel pearson, thanks lowe! finally i reply to the right post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 14 February, 2009 Share Posted 14 February, 2009 Win home games! I would expand on that and say Win Games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Under Weststand Posted 14 February, 2009 Share Posted 14 February, 2009 I would expect that our manager should be the one who picks the side from the squad available. I would also expect he would get the best out of said squad, Also I feel he should be able to fit a system/systems around the players available to him to be able to get positive results. You may not always be able to win, but I always expect to be able to compete, there have been many times this season where we've not done that. If(when) we go down I want it to be fighting, not with a whimper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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