SKD

Awful preference.

Probably the worse bit of refereeing I’ve ever seen, absolutely no excuse for it. A bad tackle, handball etc.., at the pace the game moves, you kind of understand how it could be missed, but this was pure incompetence. Mason is a rabbit in the headlights and shouldn’t be in the job at any level. The keeper was lining up his wall, when dunk ‘allegedly’ asked if he can take it. Mason blew his whistle to restart play, they put it in the pretty much empty net, but mason shit himself and blew just before the ball went in (were talking a foot if that before it crossed the line). He initially said no goal, then got pressured and gave the goal, then VAR overruled the goal (I suspect it was because they wanted to save face for him). it was mayhem. at one point he was talking to the benches for some reason. I think he blew to start play but didn’t expect them to take the free kick so quickly. In fairness, he should never have started play in that situation, so the decision to rule out the goal was probably right, but it’s an absolute farce. Add Brighton to the list of us and Wolves who don’t want him in charge of their games. Mike Dean is an arrogant twat, but at least you know he’ll generally speaking have control of the game. Mason is just beyond incompetent. I think he’d struggle to control a Southampton league game, to be honest.

No, he should never have blown his whistle if he wasn’t ready for the free kick to be taken, and then when he did, he should have allowed the goal (I.e not blown again). The bloke is the definition of incompetent. Add Brighton to the list of us and Wolves who don’t want him to ref us again.

Has to be his final game, surely...

To be fair, if you got relegated on 42 points, I think you’d say, we were bloody unlucky. Like, we were probably lucky to finish 8th that season. It’s a bit of a daft comparison, but I get your gist. given 42 points got us so high up the table, it would show that the rest of the league was pretty weak and there’s an argument we should have won more and got more points. like I’ve said in a previous post, last season we finished 3 places lower, but 12 points and 3 wins better off (and suffered 5 less losses). To me, that would represent a better season, but the table would suggest it wasn’t? I guess it shows you can’t measure success on any 1 factor. the main goal in football is to win games. I.e the more you win (or maybe even the less you lose) the better you are. But in this argument, you’re saying that’s not the case.

I’d say everyone in the premier league other than West Brom, Sheff Utd & Burnley would be equal, if not better, than what he’s currently got here. outside your traditional top 6 (although I think Tottenham and Arsenal now would), every club would snap him up in a heartbeat if they were looking for a manager and you’re deluded if you think they wouldn’t. Salary wise they’d all be able to match what we’re paying him, they’d obviously be able to match what we’re spending in the transfer market (£0) and would all probably offer a similar squad ability wise. The only thing we can potentially offer that offers can’t is he’s pretty much free to do what he wants and he won’t get sacked.

It’s an interesting argument and I think with the benefit of hindsight, if we could go back to the summer of 2017 I’d back the manager over the players 100%. Although, that being said, I’m still not sure Puel was the right man for us. After all, he didn’t do a great job at Leicester either. Of course, on paper 8th place finish and a cup final is a huge achievement for a team like ours, but I do think he benefited from a league that outside the top 7 was pretty poor (Bournemouth finished 9th) and bringing in Gabbidini, who was outstanding for the rest of that season (you could argue down to Puel as struggled to recreate that form under anyone else). He also had Fonte and VVD at CB, all be it only for half a season and Tadic. Last season, despite being pretty shite for half of it, we finished with 2 more wins and 12 more points, but 3 places lower. I guess there’s an argument for what is a better season, more wins / points or a higher league position. Puel wasn’t a disaster by any means. Pellegrino, Carrillo, and then Hughes full time contract was. Would I rather Puel over those 2? Yes. Did Puel start the rot? I’m not sure, I think he was just unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The start of Les / Ross changing strategy and losing the plot. However, the player power ousting Puel has left a cancer in the dressing room now though, in my opinion. Todays Squad is probably comparable to the second half of Puel’s season, however I think Ralph has a harder job. Puel came in when our stock and confidence was at its highest, Ralph when it’s at its lowest (Plus being hampered by the mistakes made in the Huges / Pellegrino years, both in manager and transfer market). Regardless of squad and injuries, should we lose 9-0, twice, absolutely not (even given the circumstances of the second one). However, we’re on course to finish about mid table (we’ll probably get c. Same amount of points as Puel achieved), which is roughly our level imo. Long story short, I don’t think Puel would do any better with this team. But I don’t think we’d have lost 9-0 once, let alone twice. Ralph the better manager, for us at least, imo.

Adams isn’t messi though. In fact, I’m not convinced he’s any better than Shane long in front of goal. He’s shite, need to get rid whilst he has at least some resell value.

Yes, lol. Still amused by that doughnut suggesting we put Redmond there against Leeds. Interestingly I thought this the other day when you were having the debate about ‘all midfielders should be able to play Cm’. Given how desperately thin we are, perhaps we could try Vestergaard or Stephens there. Neither are an ideal solution, but both pretty tidy on the ball and would be a lot better than Armstrong... or as he suggested Redmond 😂

given, as you say, all midfielders should be able to track, mark and defend, I’d go for something like this Forster JWP Vestergaard Salisu Bertrand Djenepo Armstrong Redmond Minamino tella ings COYR

Disagree. Both should have scored.

Leeds growing into the game. Horrible feeling that those 2 sitters missed will cost us.

Should be 2-0 up. 2 good chances missed. Need to bury Leeds first half or we won’t win, as per.

One that can come in and start from day dot would be a start. If we have a salisu incident with ings replacement we’ll be in the shit. I really think Ings (or any main goal scorer) isn’t the sort of position we can try and be clever with. There must be some Ings / Minamino type players out there who aren’t quite good enough to break in to a top 4 team, but would score a few for us.. Origi or something.

I fear you might be right and in the main, I agree. However, you can’t try and be clever when you’re replacing your only goal threat. ings is the only player we need to invest some serious money in to replace. it’s also worth saying that those 2 highlighted (I’m sure there are others), would also give us a resell value if they do improve. They’re, on paper, a typical saints type of signing of the past where we were at our best (thinking clyne, Jay-Rod, Wanyama, VVD etc. Best of that retrospective league). Limiting ourselves to £15m in today’s market is bordering on suicidal.

Big summer ahead imo, especially if we want to keep Ralph past next season. I can’t see him putting up with another season of scraping the barrel. I would hope that injuries aren’t as costly as this season. out - ings (he’s off, I think that’s clear) - Bertrand (if he is stalling, withdraw the offer and plan for without him. Tbh wouldn’t mind if he left anyway). - hodet (it’ll be a loan if we’re lucky) - lemina (let’s pray Fulham stay up) - one of the keepers (I’d have Forster as No1 personally) - Valery - Long - elyounoussi possibly out - Vestergaard (contract situation not looking great with him either so may need to cash in) - Adams (if someone offers us half decent money, I wouldn’t mind him going either). we could probably muster up about £40-£50m from that lot and maybe a bit more if we’re forced to sell Vestergaard & cash in on Adams. In - Striker to replace ings (has to be someone proven, won’t be cheap, probably looking c.£30m - someone like Edouard from Celtic Ivan Toney, although a risk, would be a good option imo). - second striker to play to replace long / Adams (wouldn’t mind us taking a look at Diagne who’s on loan at West Brom as a cheaper option, looked pretty lively). - a no 10 (minamino or lookman would both fit the bill. No need to sign Theo, unless he’s willing to significantly drop his wage) - a left back to replace Bertrand - cover at full back both sides. - if we sell JV, perhaps we’ll probably end up with Theo, a cheap left back and cheap Ings replacement which will leave us in the shit.

Credit where it’s due, we dug in and defended pretty well. We didn’t play well and I think if Chelsea were in top form they would have beaten us today. All in I’d say a draw is a fair result. Salisu looks a proper player and offers us more solidity in that back 4 (Jan should be looking over his shoulder) another 2 points dropped but something to build on today. the most obvious penalty you’ll ever see and McCarthy always just seems to dive down the middle... on to Leeds where we’ll have many more opportunities to score.

Aye..? I mean the fact it was a record, which we’ve achieved twice out of 3 times in the history of the PL would suggest it doesn’t just happen. Had we walked from the Utd away losing 5 or 6-0, I think given the circumstances it would have been acceptable, but like you’ve said, their heads dropped as soon as something went against them... I.e my exact point, it seems to always happen. Weak mentality. Once is a freak, twice there’s an underlying issue. regarding your last point, this is what almost makes it worse. If we were just a shit team, with shit players and a shit manager, you could kind of accept it. But we’re not. When things are going for us we’re brilliant, it’s when things get tough we crumble because we don’t have the fight or desire (imo).

if the same squad hadn’t have been throwing away leads under multiple managers, I’d tend to agree with you.

You are missing the point. No one is claiming they’d rather have Noble than JWP. What they’re saying is that a player like Noble (I.e mentally) would have rattled a few heads at maybe 6-0 and we don’t go on and get embarrassed. At least 3 goals were just from us giving up and not putting our body on the line or the extra effort needed to win the header. Clearly leadership isn’t all that is needed be get results. Talent, luck and intelligence is also required, but a team without leadership and mental fight, will get nowhere, regardless of ability. Look at Arsenal for the past 15 years.

Remove Ings from LM (and so deep he was practically a LB), remove Djenepo from RM, offering 0 cover defensively to our young lad at RB. Armstrong isn’t a 6, but maybe not much could have been done about that. Perhaps move to a back 5. I don’t know, I’m not paid millions a year to make those calls. But I certainly wouldn’t have left 5 attacking players on the pitch with 10 men and 3-0 down.

Ahhh yes. It must have been that high intensity style to blame for all those leads thrown away under Mark Hughes as well. That Bloody playbook. Whilst I agree we were in for a hiding at United that night, no premier league team should lose 9-0 (I mean villa u18’s only lost 6-0 to Liverpool). We quit and gave up, it’s happened twice now. Ralph should have shut up shop at 2 or 3-0 down, but players need to take responsibility. Newcastle showed how to defend with 9 men and backs against the wall, we don’t have that fight in us.

But isnt that the point. When things are going well, we’re a great team. When things get tough, we crumble. Time and time again. as I’ve said, I’ve not got anything against JWP as captain, I think he’s the best choice, but for me he’s not a leader. Our issue is that we have no leaders and no fight when things get tough. As shown by 2 9-0 defeats. I agree that we’ve had the rough end of the stick recently, but it feels like the players use that as an excuse to just give up. We’ve thrown away leads way before this as well, it’s been on going for years now.

To be fair, Puel had a lot more to work with than Ralph. Put Fonte, VvD, tadic, Gabbidini (in the form he arrived that season) into out current crop, which ings aside isn’t much different (we’ve just basically lost the best players and haven’t replaced them) and we’d be challenging Everton, West Ham etc. This season... in my opinion, of course. But I agree with what you and Turkish are saying and Given the shit show he took over, it’s ridiculous to compare anyone pre Puel, to Ralph. I think anyone with a slight bit of common sense will not judge Ralph on this run of form (I seem to remember Koeman went through a similar run as well) as we have a squad pretty pathetic in terms of depth and a horrific run of injuries. I’m probably one of the more pessimistic (I like to say realistic) ones on here, but there is absolutely no way we will be getting anywhere close to relegation. pound for pound, I think Ralph, by consolidating us as a mid table team, with our current crop has been one of our more successful managers. weird to think Eddie Howe (an absolute myth of a manager) would do any better when he hardly achieved what we have this, and last season, with significantly more resource at his disposal.

Valery will not get recalled because he’s absolutely rubbish. Not good enough for us and funny enough getting pelters by the Birmingham fans as well. He’ll fade off into the abyss in a year or 2. even without a recognised back up RB, we have better options than Valery.