The9

That sounds like an awesome job, what kind of qualifications and training do you need to get into that ? Sports Science degree ?

So after yesterday we've established that if you mark our defenders at goal kicks we're completely impotent as an attacking threat ? The "passing to full backs" thing isn't new, I did a coaching course in 1994 where the ethos was to push the full backs to the touchlines and pass to whichever defenders weren't marked - if they split their front 2 and mark the gaps between CB and FB one of the CBs goes wide to create space, if they just mark the FBs you pass to the CBs and if they mark the middle you use the FB. If they play 4-3-3 there's generally room for a pass into the centre midfield. The only "new" element of this is Saints pulling both CBs wide of the area as well for the CM (usually Cork) to drop deep and collect, and that's the one which causes problems as a CM facing his own goal in that position isn't going to be comfortable The very fact he's there and being used means the other defenders are marked, and if he's pressed the only pass then is back to the GK who is probably going to whack it, so why not just whack it without the risk of that 1-2 going awry ?

I started a thread pretty much with this title around the time of the Cardiff defeat, Cork's picked up a fair bit again since he got dropped, but he still hasn't been near the level he was for the first few matches. Lallana's form is more concerning though, he's been very quiet since the foot injury.

Anyone who didn't have some reservations about yesterday hadn't been looking at the form table or our recent away performances.

Snubbed Bournemouth, maybe.

Not of City v Saints, no.

Oh come on, we've all seen footage of that 80s team, "possession football" wasn't in the equation. It was all quick short balls hacked on out to the wingers and crosses into the area, nothing like the considered quick passing game of the current side, and all about pace and putting the ball into dangerous areas. Apart from anything, most early 80s pitches wouldn't allow the kind of passing game we've currently got.

It's nothing to do with "common sense", it's everything to do with tactics. If it was "common sense" it wouldn't be a new and much-criticised technique that most teams don't use.

As far as I can tell, the Bristol City stream is subscription and online only, so the feed which is broadcast to dishes is Palace v Millwall. So if you have a dish it'll be the Palace game and the only way we'd get a stream is if someone with a subscription re-streams it for us.

It was also nice when the Saints Trust did something similar in the Championship season we barely stayed up, but I'm not expecting much support for them in these parts nowadays.

They were there for the last home game, I think they're a nice touch. Got a few different slogans - "Pride and Passion" seemed appropriate on Saturday for some reason.

Likely to link to the same site, but worth a go I guess.

Both streams are "payant" http://viphttpplayers.yacast.net/V4/equipetv/video/equipetv_video_live_V1.html and http://www.canalsat.fr/pid1056-live-tv.html and there's a pop-up to enter your login to access the stream (CanalSat is the second one, I get a plug-in download failure from Equipe TV) - so we won't be getting it from those links directly, but that doesn't mean someone with the appropriate subscription might not restream the game somewhere for free. At least it means there is a stream being broadcast. This is the equivalent of using Sky Go without a Sky Subscription at the moment, but various Sky Sports streams pitch up online via the method above. Not sure anyone would actually bother for this game though... unless Baj knows how to, of course...

Yeah, Saints conceded about 15 - isn't it strange that against a team known for gamesmanship we conceded a lot of minor fouls not worthy of a yellow card ? Anyone would think their players were playing to win free-kicks by going over easily. Not that I would suggest Craig Mackail-Smith would tuck up his legs and keel over whenever pressured on the ball near the wing, of course. To avoid hypocrisy, I'll also mention that Hammond's rubbish dive was hilariously poor though, from the Northam it loked like he was running away from the path of the ball towards Harper. Pleased Harper has returned to Newcastle now, I can go back to liking him again. Also nice to have a keeper you can actually chant "you fat bastard" at without any sense of irony.

Just a note that the various other streaming sites out there seem to have Blackpool v Birmingham as the secondary stream behind Palace v Millwall... although some seem to be comms only (i.e. a radio feed) - none of which is relevant as long as the Saints stream is out there somewhere.

I'd say parking the bus was more the over-reliance on defending at the expense of attacking, rather than just organised defending.

Really ? If only I'd thought to link to that in the opening post.

I generally agree, but in domestic football these things move in cycles as a reaction to tactical innovation. Internationally it's a different story as teams are thrown together and are generally over-reliant on basic systems in which ball retention is key - so England won't get anywhere trying to wang it, but West Ham might - especially as they have the proponents of the tech which supports their high percentage guff.

Given our preference to pass, I'm not sure why the oppo is telling their strikers to press, without midfielders supporting the pressing it's futile anyway, there are always at least 2 free defenders to pass to. Sides would be better off dropping off and only defending from half way. Amazed at how many don't.

By the time you get those in sync the game will have finished and you'll still be in the first 10 minutes !

I don't have a problem with us passing it (especially as well as we do), and appreciate that we need it to be on the deck to do that, plus playing it short early on gives us the chance to stretch the opposition - IF they press using their attack / midfield - but it's still a risk. I'd say the goal at Cardiff was more just a poor pass out of defence when not under pressure which can happen at any point, but its passing short when the option isn't there that's the risk with the short goal kicks. I'm not a fan of hoofing for the sake of it (especially not what West Ham were doing at St Mary's); there is a place for mixing up long passes to retain unpredictability, but it can be done at minimal risk. It's no better to be always tappy-tapping than it is always wanging it.

Much liking.

I think much of it depends on how good the opposition are at closing down the defence, or whether Lambert's getting any joy. This look familiar ? If anything Saints pull the midfield wider and isolate the short pass recipient and/or Lambert even more. The questions really are "do we HAVE to play the short goal kicks to keep possession when our target man can do the same thing at far less risk in an attacking position" and "is there any proof that conceding the ball from a long kick puts a side under pressure when they have 10 men goalside ?".

Skint as we're moving house next weekend (toyed with Doncaster away as well as I've never been, but the cost is prohibitive with removal costs, solicitors, Xmas, Fratton and decorating to come), so giving Ashton Gate a miss, I've been there about 10 times and it was only 20 miles from where I used to live anyway. Plus the tickets went quickly which helped make up my mind for me. Hell, I've seen Bristol City v Everton in the Carling Cup and went against Wolves in the Championship in 1998/9 (the infamous Wolfie and the 3 little pigs game), seen Saints play there preseason and in the League, I really don't need to go again. The missus has never been but has taken one for the team and will probably reap the rewards in sofa furnishings, so she's coping, just like she did with the Coventry match t'other week - again I'd been before but she hadn't. Will do the usual and stick the radio on (which we bought specifically to listen to Saints matches on). No online stream expected as Palace v Millwall is the main game, but I don't actually plan on doing anything today apart from going to B&Q for planning purposes anyway. Will probably listen to Saints and watch Palace or a Prem match online.

We've had this discussion before, and my location indicates pretty much how I feel about our kamikaze Kelv short passes to midfielders facing the wrong way... But here's a bit of analysis, with stats : http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/11/25/goalkeeper-short-passing-distribution/#more-7578 You'll note that Chelsea's goal kick line up is almost identical to Saints' and they have the highest pass completion rate in the Prem. The argument basically goes that giving the ball away by playing it short in defence occasionally might concede a goal, but whacking it up the pitch concedes possession numerous times and puts a team under pressure. But is that the case for Saints ? When we whack it, Lambert usually wins it, so where's the risk of conceding possession ? The stats in the article show that Blackburn's keeper has the worst possession stat, because they don't have a target man who wins the ball, but he always kicks long - whilst Stoke have a low pass completion rate overall, but their keeper's is high, because Crouch wins everything ! Clearly passing the ball from the back is the way we're going, but as Saints fans would we rather risk passing it short around the back 5 enabling ourselves to build, or just put it where we're not going to concede and try building from there ? Or is the problem not with the short goal kick, just Kelvin's passing skill ?