Fitzhugh Fella

Topcat - although I have a position at Unite, through my role with BA cabin crew, I think they are a monolithic waste of space. As for my politics - well I usually end up voting Lib Dem because of where I live but politics has left me disillusioned too much these days to to get too excited, but I suppose I would say I am a bit of an old fashioned Labour person, not left, not right in an Ed Miliband sort of way. Otherwise thank you for your confidence although I have to say most if not all I hear these days is from outside the club. I would hate for anyone working for the club to get into trouble by confiding in me and it doesn't happen.

Accepting what you say do you think football clubs need "to manage the image they put in the public domain". Surely what you see is what you get? I suppose what I am trying to say - a bit cackhandedly - is do we, as fans need to have our club's image manipulated for our benefit.

Interesting points you raise. I don't know about THAT dinner. Could well have happened I suppose. I liked the report back, I like the words that NC spoke - it all made sense but like you say there was no "official" info given so was it a figment of Bick's PR and if so did it serve a genuine purpose if no one is sure it was factual? NC already has a reputation of "doing things his way" so why would he worry about employing someone like Bick to "spin" for him?

There is debate on other threads about David Bick's involvement in promoting Southampton FC and whether it is having the desired effect or does it ultimately cause fan alienation. PR companies working for football clubs is something that has only evolved in the last 10 or so years but is there a need? Do fans just want open honest up-to-date info which maybe good or bad or do they want to be kept happy with spin which may or may not be the total truth? Football clubs have not always been honest with their fans, especially when it came down to transfers fees and scandals but, by and large, you got somewhere to the real story through the local papers who were independant and not afraid to fall out with the board if neccessary. The likes of Ken Bates and co soon learnt the value of supressing or manipulating the media but it seems to me nowadays football clubs attach as much importance to how things are pitched rather than what actually takes place on the pitch. Even Rupert Lowe realised the advantages of good PR and I seem to remember the predecessor to this forum being infiltrated by especially hired PR only for it to spectacularly back fire when we realised we were being spun. So do we need it, is it helpful or will it end in tears? Is there room for the likes of David Bick in our football club? There are lots of accusations of people having agendas on this forum if they differ from the populist view but surely PR in football clubs is all about setting agendas?

I am not saying Cortese is wrong or out of order if the club buys his house, after all the club does not belong to us, it belongs to the group he represents and if they want to buy a house in Chilworth then that is their business. However at the same time it is not right that people argue that he is committed to the club because he "bought" with his own money, a house in Chilworth. And Nick - I accept that you were not attacking me but you have got to accept in return (as I have) that everyone supports the Saints different ways from those who give unstinting unswerving uncritical support, like yourself, to those who want to question virtually every move. We both want to end up in the same place but we all choose different routes to the summit and the sooner we all resist from accusing each other having agendas then so much the better.

You are getting tedious with your "agenda" theories. Anyone whose views you don't share has an "agenda". Perhaps you have an agenda - it certainly appears so.

I believe the house was actually purchased by the club. Not a criticism just making sure the facts are accurate.

Yes it could. Like I say I know nothing more than the rumour which I initially discounted as fabrication. Since it has come back to me from a completely different source and with credible embellishment. In football everything has its price I guess however I think there is enough integrity in the present owners to ensure whoever the club is sold to -big IF - that the club will be in good hands with people who can take us forward. However as I have said all along my motto is "better the devil you know", so I hope the Liebherr family decide to maintain the original plan.

God the irony here is so delicious!

Firstly Nick - it was not MY rumour, it was one which came to me and i sat on because i didn't believe it at the time. However having since learnt that ML was probably quite ill it set me wondering if there wasn't some truth in the stories. Also I don't think I said they were trying to sell but more a case of "if a good offer comes along". Finally for the record can I say I too hope this is just speculation.

I "reckon" nothing. I know nothing as I said. Just answering Derry's question.

Derry, I first heard this story about 2 months ago and it originated from an ex-player with good local connections and no political axe (ie not MLT, Franny etc). This was some weeks before Markus's sad passing. I really did not believe it although I suppose football clubs are always "for sale" (for the right price). However over the last week the rumour keeps coming back to me from other unconnected sources. I really do not want to believe it because being owned by the Liebherrs (and certainly while Markus was alive) you could ask for no better owners but perhaps things have now changed? Nicola could have lost his ambition as his friend is no longer alive and perhaps he hankers after returning to his pre-Saints way of life. I really do not know! If and it is a big if, there is a desire to sell let's hope they are selective to whom they sell. There are a lot of sharks out there and precious few good guys.

Alain your words are wise ones but one small rider - I wouldn't give a flying f*** about what anyone said about me if I was still comfortably behind a cloak of anonymity.

A fairly sound appraisal of where we are and why we are. However we now have no choice but to unite behind NC/NA. Let's hope we have finally found a winning formula. I just hope and pray NC is not already having second thoughts and looking to unload because "better the devil you know".

Thanks the gaffer - I too have been on the receiving end of some pretty nasty stuff from manji which has left me feeling a bit perplexed. He seems to think I hanker after some sort of position at SMS and gets really nasty. I think it must have something to do with my bust up with Lowe and can only assume as Mike was pretty anti too that that is the reason he feels so vitriolic. There is no need for it and it must be very hurtful for Mike to see such nastiness. I sincerely Manji reflects on his words.

Thanks Nick - apology accepted. Forums can be lethal. Going back to the OP I can in hindsight see where you are coming from but funnily enough it was not my intention to cause any "trouble". I was a little instrumental in getting the Kevin Moore appeal off the ground a few years back (although Ian Ritchie should get 99.99% credit for everything he has since done). I am interested that you regard my criticism as continually undermining the club. The only person I did try and destabilise was Rupert and only after he publicy undermined Stuart Gray in the Echo. I regarded his presence at SMS harmful from that moment and I pretty much stand behind that argument today. Like I said NC to me is the main man and I will support him 100% if for no other reason that there is simply no one else who can do what he can. As for Leon and Lawrie I have had big rows with both men over the years and I think both have had their day - as far as Saints are concerned - although in their day both men were committed to the cause in their own ways and contributed to our welfare. I do criticise a lot (mainly because there is a lot to criticise in modern football) and I am not one for sticking my head in the sand when it comes to Saints but I really do not want to see any more unrest in the forseeable future. I really hope NC is as committed as he says because the alternative does not bear thinking about. I also think those who made nasty remarks about Mike Osman should withdraw them because he certainly does not deserve the crap that wa sposted on here, whatever his "political" views maybe. He did a great job last week and I am still getting laughs of his sexual history and getting old watching porno films gags. Rgds Duncan

Phil nowhere in the OP did I say it was anti-Saints stuff they were spouting. Another example of misquoting. I should think all 3 would be ****ed off if they thought I was saying that they were anti-Saints. What I said was it was "hard-hitting political" stuff that was "controversial". Personally I didn't agree with ALL of it which was one reason I chose not to elaborate, but I stand by my right to report it back that it took place without having people like Nick imply I was looking to drop Mike Osman in it.

Well **** me Nick why don't you stir it up a bit more? I have resisted replying to some of the criticism on here because it truly is pathetic but I resent deeply your implication that I was I am somehow setting Mike up for criticism. If you read my OP I praised him massively for his time and contribution to charity and I for one enjoyed his compering the event very much. To call someone like him a freeloader is a scandal and I suspect it is the dying remnants of Rupert's army that are throwing their toys out of the pram. My OP was an honest report back of the evening. If I had not mentioned the fact that there WAS some political talk it would not have been an honest report back. I did not feel the need to reveal the content of what was said, which was because I assumed most on here could probably guess that it was not going to be complimentary to either of the two last recent regimes in charge at SMS, and like Mike said on the night, it was best left inside the hall. I also knew if I repeated it, it would be me that would be left arguing the toss or defending it and tbh I can't be arsed any more. NC is in charge, his represents the owners and what he says goes. No point in going on about it. He's the boss and can do what he likes. I wish him the best of luck because we need it and I shall support all he does because there is no other game in town. I think it really sad that by trying to make this forum a more informed place people like you try and spin it to persuade people like Mike that they should be upset with me? Yesterday there were two quite interesting posts I was going to start but I shied away because I couldn't be bothered to take the flak. One involved an Echo piece on Jonathan Fulthorpe and his proposed takeover of Saints and the other well..like I said I can't be arsed to attract more crap from people like you. It is a shame because there are some good people on this forum (though the number is dwindling), who I am sure appreciate being kept up to speed with reliable gossip but it just gets too personal now and tbh my life is complicated and unpleasant enough to have to put up with anymore crap on here. I don't think you are one of the worst Nick, in fact far from it but you really should think before you start slinging mud. Your post is trying to create a non existant wedge between Mike Osman and my words and I don't appreciate that.

I think Schneiderlin is the most over rated player at SMS since Anders Svensson. Show ponies the pair of them! His free kicks today were a disgrace.

Yes he definately did not like the way the left side had shaped up hence removing Puncheon and Harding. Thought Schneiderlin was awful today. He looks elegant on the ball but some of this free kicks and all round play was very poor.

I do think it about time SISA disbanded. I do think it about time the Echo realiase they speak for no one anymore. There was a time in the 90s when they fulfilled a useful function and had an element of democracy about them but that was then. Do we need an organisation to represent supporter's views anymore? I really don't know, but one thing I do know Nicola Cortesa is under no obligation to listen to anyone if he doesn't want to.

I have got no gripes against NC - he is the boss whether we like the way he does things or not. It could be a lot worse as we could have a chairman who doesn't care and doesn't invest. We now have a new manager and now we are going to have to sit back and give him 6 months to get settled. Unfortunately this means promotion is a long shot and the 5-year plan is under threat but we really have had too much instability at Southampton FC and whatever we all think our only choice is to put all the politics behind us and hope that Nigel Adkins with Nicola Cortese's support can finally stop the rot. There are no other options.

Must admit last night was sobering. I was looking forward to some improvement with the "new manager" syndrome kicking in but it was more of the same a la Swindon. By the end we were almost a rabble and only Chamberlain last night came up to par. Bringing on Mills for Connolly at 0-0 was Adkins first mistake - Connolly was doing nothing but Mills is very limited going forward. We were talking last night about how incredible it is that we should go from firm favourites to also rans in one month - something went very wrong in the summer. Not pointing any fingers because it seems the truth is wrapped up in mystery but in the close season this club lost all the impetus built up last season. Last night it was quite shocking to see the decline in the players who served us so well. Schneiderlin and Hammond are so one dimensional, Hammond is now a hoofer, Connolly looks like he's never played at the highest level, Puncheon was shocking, his shooting wayward and his judgement non-existant. Lambert was a shadow, Seaborne raw and out-of-his-depth while Davis (shot stopping aside) unable to come of his line for crosses. Well-beaten by an ordinary side. The ref was one of those you thought would make a terrible decision against us any minute - awful and so was the ginger linesman who irritatingly only put his flag up after the ref had made the decision. Nigel Adkins really has his work cut out and when I looked at the bench to see the options it was almost unbeleivable how few we had. Something has gone wrong, it means no promotion this year which is making the original 5-year plan look wildly optimistic imo.

Must admit last night was sobering. I was looking forward to some improvement with the "new manager" syndrome kicking in but it was more of the same a la Swindon. By the end we were almost a rabble and only Chamberlain last night came up to par. Bringing on Mills for Connolly at 0-0 was Adkins first mistake - Connolly was doing nothing but Mills is very limited going forward. We were talking last night about how incredible it is that we should go from firm favourites to also rans in one month - something went very wrong in the summer. Not pointing any fingers because it seems the truth is wrapped up in mystery but in the close season this club lost all the impetus built up last season. Last night it was quite shocking to see the decline in the players who served us so well. Schneiderlin and Hammond are so one dimensional, Hammond is now a hoofer, Connolly looks like he's never played at the highest level, Puncheon was shocking, his shooting wayward and his judgement non-existant. Lambert was a shadow, Seaborne raw and out-of-his-depth while Davis (shot stopping aside) unable to come of his line for crosses. Well-beaten by an ordinary side. Nigel Adkins really has his work cut out and when I looked at the bench to see the options it was almost unbeleivable how few we had. Something has gone wrong, it means no promotion this year which is making the original 5-year plan look wildly optimistic imo.

Went to the Kevin Moore charity evening in Otterbourne last night and thought it was very successful and well organised. It was good to se some folk from Fulham FC down and along with Grimsby they provided items to auction. Kevin's family were also there. Good to see Jimmy Case and a couple of Hants cricketeers (Dimi and Nic Pothas) in attendance. Matt and L Mac were on form and there was a lot of interesting chat both football related (Dia, Kevin Keegan, Bally, Tim Flowers) and inevitably some hard-hitting, controversial, political stuff too, which is best if it stays between the 4 walls it was spoken in. I know L Mac - understandably - gets lots of flak for his ego etc etc but I have got to say the guy still loves the club as much as anyone, follows it avidly, and gives a helluva lot of his spare time up doing charitable events which at his age must be quite draining. Ditto Mike Osman who compered and told some genuinely funny jokes, especially about Millbrook. Seeing all the effort and dedication put in to help an ex-Saint was gratifying and occasions such as this reminded me why I fell under the club's spell in the first place. Matt is as comfortable behind the microphone as he was with the ball. Enough said! Kevin is not really in "a good place" right now but he has a loving family and last night proved many people care about him still.