Frank's cousin

I would suggest ' lot of people (normal) do NOT take eveything seriously, but there are topics of interest and conversation that they do' - I'm more amazed that there are grown adults out there that cant take anything seriously, or accept that everyone is different and some do want to occasionally discuss something 'seriously' or a serious topic, without inane comment, or 'banter' deliberately designed to provoke... Why is it that certain posters conjure up an image of spotty teenagers giggling like school girls at their monitors congratulating themselves on winding up another old 'mong'? Beavis and Butthead seem to be role models for some on here.

Thanks Norway - excellent post IMHO.

What the TRUST should have said (if integrity and gaining back some respect was their true aim) ''As fans of Portsmouth Football Club, we are ashamed of the criminal negligence of the financial controler at the club and all that this has involved over the last 7 years. Any success from the promotion to the premier league to the FA cup win, will sadly in our eyes be forever tainted, as this success was only possible by excessive spending that the as we have since seen, we have not pai back or cannot pay for. I call on all true fans of our club, who have pride and integrity to acknowledge this fact, as difficult as it may be and apologise unreservedly to the footballing community for the unfair competitive advantage we have enjoyed, through the sickening exploitation of the tax payer, local businesses, and charities. But actions speak louder than words. Its is not enough to simply apologize. We need to demonstrate that this time of irresponsible and criminal financial management is behind us and will although taints our past, will not be part of our future. Therefore, I outline our proposal to creditors and the administrators. 1. We will purchase the club and all its assets for £1 2. We will make an initial goodwill payment to all nonsecured creditors of 1mil 3. We will continue to pay a minimum of 1mil per annum to all unsecured creditors for a period not less than 15 years - in additional any operating surplus will also go into additional voluntary payments until such a time as the level of repyament is a more realistic and acceptable level of compensation to all those we have let down 4. We ask however, for some good grace to allow us to invest an appropriate percentage of our revenue in the purchase of and setting up of a proper footballing academy and training facilities to support the regeneration process. In addition, we will set aside an amount for necessary maintenance and improvements to Fratton Park. The ultimate aim, with 15 years will be to regenerate the ground fit for purpose. 5. All the remianing parachute payments will be used to pay off the footballing debt in full with the remainder in full and final settlement of any claim Mr Chinny has over the club. 6. We will be prepared for a period of competitive disadvantage as we will be utilising younger players within the first team squad in an effort to maintain a realistic minimal wage budget to ensure the mistakes of the past are never repeated. With luck, and with time, the investment in youth will bare fruit and we will be able to plan for climbing the football pyramid again - but we must be patient, prudent and realistic. I am confident that given the passionate nature of our support and teh desire to see football remain part of the city, the fans will support these high ideals and attend in good numbers on which we can operate effectively and efficiently and set a foundation for future success. 7. It will NOT be easy. It will not be a period in which we will be climbing high in the division, but with your support and with these sound principles underpinning our strategy it will be one in which we can regain some PRIDE back in our club and what it stands for. Sadly what they have been saying is (well along the lines of) 1. We will pay as little to anyone owed as we can get away with 2. This will mean we will spend at least double the L1 average and try and get promotion - you know as we have done in the past 3. We have no shame and will continue to be DCSBs

I have not seen anything posted that should not be allowed - its just that in the past the banter, p!sstake generally found itself in banter, p!sstake threads - now its on all threads, which can can on occasion be a good thing, but its just degenerated to the point where those wanting to discuss a issue cant even do that - and irony is lost on those individuals with 15,000+ posts accusing the 'mongs' of being so serious and obsessed with message boards....

What is it with administrators that go to football clubs... does the 'fame' and rubbing shoulders with the stars feck with their brains? - They end up comming across like their primary responsibilty is the fans and community - to save a 'historic' institution... NO IT FECKIN ISN'T - the job is to get the very best for creditors, and if that means liquidation, they should be pushing for that. Yes there is an argument that if a business survives then thsi may be the best way for creditors to get money back, but only if the 'CVA' includes provision for future payments based on performance. This is a law I would like to see happen across business - if it were legally possible - that if a company continues trading after and insolvency event, or a NewCo is created with the assets transferred, a percentage of any revenue genearted MUST be handed over to creditors for a set period of time - Would also like this to be introduced with individuals - those shyster 'small businessmen' that take folks cash and then the company folds, only for them to start up again doing the same business under a different name. Ltd companies protect the owners from company debt, and there is value in such a system, but it also creates a convenient loophole for those that have no business being in business, and are in effect con artists, setting up companies that they know will not last and leave many ****ed off creditors...

Attempts by insecure middle and senior 'management' people to sound intelligent by using 'metaphor' that is incomprehensible bull. teh instead of the proactive - we used to do things, then we were encouraged to do them actively, now its proactive... yet we are still doing the same fecking thing!!!

Thing is the talk of 60 metre sea level rises, and other catatrophic events tends to be media BS, based on extreme preditions and models. Scientists do not 'predict' these things WILL happen, but present the data from models which includes the extremes at both ends depending on the input variables... secondly, extreme climate change has happened over the earths 4500 years and over that time it is effectively cooling - and we will eventually see the end of volcanoes and the like in another billion years or so... and it was only 50,000 years agi we had another mini ice age, so why worry? Well, its the SUBTLE impact that we need to consider - and the fact remains we still do not know what impact the relatively recent warming will have on the global climate patterns... we all joke about the Jet stream having shifted south for teh next 4 or 5 years which is why we are getting such crap summers, but the real potentila problem is the impact on grain belts etc. There are 7 bn people on this planet and if there is a shift what the land mass icapable of producing, dessertification etc... not sure teh political and social fall out will make this a very pleasent place to live. Over geological time, plate tectonices will see the continents move back together, albeit slower than in the past as the earth cools, but humans are unlikely to be left around then - will have evolved etc, but this is teh fundemental problem with out brains...we are simply not designed to appreciate time on these scales and only really think about/comprehend 100 years or so so tend to be looking for impact over that sort of time scale... and thats why the more sensible models tend to suggest minor impact if any over a time scale we are interested in/comprehend. To those that put humans first and sod the rest.... well put humans first and recognise that many of our diseases etc are impacted on or the result of the **** we eat, **** we pump out, and **** atmosphere in many cities - we are nt exactly helpoing ourselves with the current way of going about things...

Personally... I believe the only MORAL and RIGHT way is for clubs to agree a repayment plan of 100% of all debt - even if over 20 years and cut their cloth accordingly - This money must and should be paid directly each month or is witheld by the FL and paid directly etc. Those clubs in this period of 'repayment' would need to be in th black all teh time or have their golden share removed - failure to comply and expulsion and in effct liquidation. Unfortunately, too many fans have the rose tinted romantic view that football is so important to the community that it is beyond nmormal business practice and ethical and moral codes... frankly its discusting a club can in effect write off so much debt and pay back as little as 1p in the £... There is simply NO argument for why a club should be allowed to do this and continue trading. If a club really is THAT important to a community, it would see weekly sell outs and probably not have the financial problems so many do....

We only owed Barclays and Aviva, everyone else was paid. Repayments for 8 years at just under 2mil a year before the axe fell + the 10 mil that ML paid and yes part of the agreement with aviva was another 4 mil would be paid if we got back to the prem inside 5 years... guess its kinda of nice to know ML was happy to sign up to the additional repayment, and honour it, but not unsurprizing given the moral and ethical way he ran his businesses - all round great man who is sadly missed.

Thing is there IS a way of the trust doing this - even without major initial funding, given that they have a CVA potentially in place IF they had a realistic and ethical business plan that involved paying off debts over a 5 year period and scraping everything else back to the bare bones...and offering creditors compromise terms that mean increased percentages based on any surplus revenues generated - but IF by some miracle their bid does win, it already seems likely that they will once again spend more on wages/transfers than most others, and simply reenter the debt cycle... fricken disgraceful really, but you need to put some of the balme on the FA and FL for allowing clubs to get away with it... Would it not be better for the FA/FL having some kind of start up funding loan available to fans who wanted their clubs back - leave the currupt carcus to rot - and support fan run initiatives, albeit in Blue Square or whatever, but with business and strategic support ans well as accountancy monitoring? To me that would be far more illustrative of teh value of the football family and supporting clubs and fans than ignoring the ethics and complete lack of sporting integrity demonstrated by allowing a club to survive with its cups and history bought through cheating creditors out of 150mil .... feck, I would hazzard a guess there would even be many Saints fan who would encourage and support such a pheonix and wish them all the very best.

SFC had already paid close to 16mil in interest and capital repayment + approx 10 mil form Liebherr after the takeover + another 4mil as we have returned to the prem - see that was factored into the compromise so total stadium loan was around 28mil, total paid back in 12 years 30mil so although they have lost a bit of interest, I think that puts it a little more into perspective that 0.4p on the pound your creditors are getting - ...why is it that no one from Pompey wants to make a feckin stand and claim their club back properly, and get back some morality and pride back into the club, even if it means playing kids in L2 for several years? ... So Pompey new new co will storm the league with a gate of 8000.... so tell me if its so easy, how come other clubs with more fans, better infrastructure etc have struggled to get out that league? Could it be more realistic transfer and wage budgets in line with revenue?

1. I suspect you are underestimating the footballing creditor debt level by a large chunk, even if deferred etc... surely wise would be to factor this in accurately 2. Given the hideousness of the financial mess of the last 3 years, if you have a balance of 8mil in PPs, would not the ethical, moral and RIGHT thing to do with this cash not be to increase the offer to creditors? You know actually pay some of the bills? ...sorry forgot for a moment - thought I was talking about a club that actuallgave a sh!t about morals, ethics and what is RIGHT... how silly of me.

... so lets say the Trust get the nod... what chance do they then have of the '3000' actually stumping up the full grand? EDIT darn was beaten to it....

Think this is the the unique thing about football - most transfer fees etc and probably signing on fees will be in installments and some deffered... and HMRC are ignored (the pompey way) and they get 'credit' from the loan shark owners who want it back (think 10 mil to CSI), 18 mil to Chinney etc.... Doubt they will get much of an overdraft facility form their bank for the foreseable....

This seeme dto arise following their heavy 6 goal defeat at the hands of Arsenal... when they were cheering Henry and he mentioned how great they were in his post match interview... now I am all for acknowledging briliance and being sporting and gracious in defeat etc, but for some strange reason they and the media seem to have latched on to this as some sort of differentiator. The second aspect is that Fratton is the last heap of ****e old school style ground - now at home in league 1/2 - and the natural proximity of fans to the pitch, does make a more 'raditional' atmosphere etc - something most prem teams often choke in... remember how many teams hated playing us at the Dell for the same reasons. They like all clubs have a hard core who will stick by them etc, and like all clubs some decent hoonest fans - but to suggest that they are the 'bestest' (sic) and play up to this is not arrogant, but naive in the extreme.. and funy as feck as a result.

Jeez - is there no end to his barefaced shamelessness? He actually states 'these overpaid players will kill off the club' .... fricken hell, what about those that gave them the contrcats in the first place? Jeez.... Notice he is now fully part of the football family as through some strange mathematical impossibilty is also now 110% sure of things as opposed to the normal persons 100%

You really are a plonker at times - not quite sure what your fascination is with trying to wind me up, but please at least read and understand what other posters are trying to say before responding with drivel To clarify: 1. Yes, I did say there is an established causal link between kids who are beaten/abused that go on to beat and abuse their own - a cycle that is accepted - this led to posing the question over whether there were any parents out there that smacked their kids, who were NOT smacked themselves as children? Given that most who say they do now, usually suggest that they were and it 'never did them any harm'.... Legislation often seems drachonian to 'normal' and 'sensible' folk, but too often we forget that legislation (not just in this case either but in so many in which the Mail reader expresses outrage against a PC 'gone mad' /Big Brother society) is NOT designed infringe on liberties of the normal and sensible, but to protect those exposed to the minority that cannot control tempers or worse. 2. Is smacking 'abuse'? All depends on your definition of 'Abuse' - Of course a light slap on the bum is not in anyway near the level of what is classified as criminal abuse, yet is also banned in some 30+ Countries, 20 across Europe. 3. Studies are inconclusive as they have to be by there very nature, observational and retrospective (as opposed to testing and repeating hypotheses which is the normal scientific research route) and as such are unrepeatable with same set of subjects which would validate findings etc, but most do indicate there is an increase in anger issues in those that were smacked as child... to what level I dont know or even if its necessarily a major issue. 4. I suggested that although smacking undoubtedly works, is it more for parents benefit, as it works quicker and takes less time than talking and repeating and repeating, especially in young children where reason/understanding requires greater time investment and patience? 5. Given most countries in Europe have banned smacking and in most cases banned corporal punishment in schools many years before we did, how come the Swedes and the Germans for example, have LOWER youth crime and behaviour issues than we do? Yes, Youth problems can probably be linked directly to lack of discipline and teaching in the home, but given the evidence from countries like Sweden and Germany, it would suggest that discipline can be installed in children without smacking, and that in our case there are other social factors influencing this, with a far greater imapct than the removal of corporal punishment. 6. 'Quaking with fear' - never said this, but its a common theme with your responses to pick on a single word or phase and manipulate to get a reaction - but I will respond anyway. I was making what I believe to be a valid point - reinforcing discipline is a necessary step in a childs development - in this country we have a choice, we can use a smack or we can use some other punishment (both reinforced by reason/discussion) - smacking does cause a short element of pain - not a huge amount but usually enough to cause a few emotinal tears - so how do the kids learn? They associate doing that thing wrong with a smack, and its the 'fear' of the smack that reinforces the behaviour... that is just common sense. My point was that is this the BEST way to reinforce positive behaviours? through 'fear' or should we try and reason or use other punishments? 7. Finally, I also posed the question to which no one has provided IMHO a satisfactory answer (although Pap was at least willing to try to sensibly), repeated from Norway Saints post: Given that it's clear that there ARE suitable and workable alternatives, why is there a need to smack a child, or even a desire to ensure parents retain a right to do so should they wish to? I am not judging anyone who smacks their kids, my parents did it to me, and they are loving normal parents, but times and attitudes change and they probably did it because it was the accepted norm. But the question on why its necessary remains.

At the end of the day its not illegal to smack in this country, there is 'probably' no lasting damage done by a soft smack when appropriate....etc, but as Norway Saint has asked, the question I guess remains is why the need to when there are equally effective alternative punishments that can ensure good behaviour is reinforced? Sure, there are time when I think about it and its easy to believe it would be a more effective way, especially when my daughetr was younger and 'talking' did not seem to work, but I could simply not do it knowing I would be ashamed if I as a grown adult had to resort to smacking her rather than using alternatives. Just me. Interestingly, data cited on Wiki showed that public opinion in Swden was roughly 50:50 when they banned it several years ago - now only 11% believe it is an effective an useful tool for parents to support discipline/punishment... attitudes change.

Wiggens is fricken legend! Kudos to Froome to... Get in there

Am I being pedantic when getting annoyed that Phelps is heralded as the greatest olympian ever? Sure he is the greatest Swimmer in the Olympic games, but given they can enter so many categories compared to the other sports, it seems a bit OTT. Fantatstic achievement and amazing career, but is it any difference to say if Ben Ainsley was given a mendal for each race rather than just the series, or if there were 10 races of different lengths? I know, being churlish, but surely these kind of statements need to be tempered relative to the opportunity for medals?

Am I being pedantic when getting annoyed that Phelps is heralded as the greatest olympian ever? Sure he is the greatest Swimmer in the Olympic games, but given they can enter so many categories compared to the other sports, it seems a bit OTT. Fantatstic achievement and amazing career, but is it any difference to say if Ben Ainsley was given a mendal for each race rather than just the series, or if there were 10 races of different lengths? I know, being churlish, but surely these kind of statements need to be tempered relative to the opportunity for medals?

First up Pap, not judging you, and I dont think you are out of order... Its not my place anyway to 'judge' - merely presenting an opinion. The example you describe I cant comment on, mine not yet at that age -( Have the joys of teenagers still to come ). Anyway, you answered your own question really - you say shes KNOWS she in the wrong, beacuse you as good parents (not meaning to sound patronizing) have taught her that... but like all teenagers going through that hideous phase, is reactionary and probably will know she is in the wrong and regret it when in a calmer frame of mind. My point is that there is probably much worse teenage behaviour out there becuase those lessons were not given by parents, who probably did just smack and not take the time to explain...and repeat, and repeat with the patience that you as good parents obviously showed. Again in a non judgemental way - Do you think the smack will have added to her understanding that this was wrong and decrease the liklihood of it happening again? I guess the crux of my opinion is that I dont think it would, but acknowledge a suitable punsihment is necessary - what that might be, no idea, as I say still got those 'joys' to come.

First up Pap, not judging you, and I dont think you are out of order... Its not my place anyway to 'judge' - merely presenting an opinion. The example you describe I cant comment on, mine not yet at that age -( Have the joys of teenagers still to come ). Anyway, you answered your own question really - you say shes KNOWS she in the wrong, beacuse you as good parents (not meaning to sound patronizing) have taught her that... but like all teenagers going through that hideous phase, is reactionary and probably will know she is in the wrong and regret it when in a calmer frame of mind. My point is that there is probably much worse teenage behaviour out there becuase those lessons were not given by parents, who probably did just smack and not take the time to explain...and repeat, and repeat with the patience that you as good parents obviously showed. Again in a non judgemental way - Do you think the smack will have added to her understanding that this was wrong and decrease the liklihood of it happening again? I guess the crux of my opinion is that I dont think it would, but acknowledge a suitable punsihment is necessary - what that might be, no idea, as I say still got those 'joys' to come.

I guess the big questions reamins teh level of footballing debt: 1. Total of existing footballing debt to August 2012 2. How much of this will be paid up by chinney on arrival 3. How much is deferred and over what timeframe 4. Wil the PL withold PPs to cover the remianing deferred debt 5. Will the FL be happy with the deferred debt and timeline of repayment if the PPs are not witheld? 6. What is the timeframe for the derisory 2p in the 2p CVA payments - epecially as not a penny was paid to the last one in 2 years Whatever happens the simple fact remains, for some inexplicable reason, the media, FL etc have not really bothered to dig deep and expose and publicise the shear hidiousness and level of their 'crimes' - brushing over 100 mil + of written off debt chasing a dream that their infrastructure, fanbase and revenue could not sustain.... all beacuse its football blah blah blah... yes its embarrassing, to the national game, which surely suggests they are better off getting rid, than 'supporting the football family' - Sorry it simply just stinks, yet most dont get it. Have said it before and will say it again, if Saints had done this, I would support a breakaway - I would simply not want to continue supporting a club that that so blatently cheated, not once but twin in the last 7 years, ripped off charities, local suppliers and been run by these types... I could not stomach it - The club and what it stands for is simply NOT worth saving - I would have utmost respect for any pompey fans that ent down that route with a similar attitude, but sadly there dont seem to be any, as all to desperate to cling on to their 'history' as they knwo they will have feck all of a future, and believe misguidedly that we might be bothered by their 'vast' numbers of additional trophies....

I guess the big questions reamins teh level of footballing debt: 1. Total of existing footballing debt to August 2012 2. How much of this will be paid up by chinney on arrival 3. How much is deferred and over what timeframe 4. Wil the PL withold PPs to cover the remianing deferred debt 5. Will the FL be happy with the deferred debt and timeline of repayment if the PPs are not witheld? 6. What is the timeframe for the derisory 2p in the 2p CVA payments - epecially as not a penny was paid to the last one in 2 years Whatever happens the simple fact remains, for some inexplicable reason, the media, FL etc have not really bothered to dig deep and expose and publicise the shear hidiousness and level of their 'crimes' - brushing over 100 mil + of written off debt chasing a dream that their infrastructure, fanbase and revenue could not sustain.... all beacuse its football blah blah blah... yes its embarrassing, to the national game, which surely suggests they are better off getting rid, than 'supporting the football family' - Sorry it simply just stinks, yet most dont get it. Have said it before and will say it again, if Saints had done this, I would support a breakaway - I would simply not want to continue supporting a club that that so blatently cheated, not once but twin in the last 7 years, ripped off charities, local suppliers and been run by these types... I could not stomach it - The club and what it stands for is simply NOT worth saving - I would have utmost respect for any pompey fans that ent down that route with a similar attitude, but sadly there dont seem to be any, as all to desperate to cling on to their 'history' as they knwo they will have feck all of a future, and believe misguidedly that we might be bothered by their 'vast' numbers of additional trophies....