Farmer Saint

Absolutely, not absolving Martin of anything on this, but numerous posters deciding this is all on Martin is disingenuous and incorrect.

This.

They did have better players though...

Yup, I wouldn't bet against him being worse...

That last statement shows everything you need to know, and nearly half those games weren't this season. This shows that the issue is way deeper than the Manager.

Why do you think I'm supporting Martin? I'm just saying the grass isn't always greener. Nearly everyone on here thought anyone could do a better job. It turns out that may not be true, but to keep blaming this on Martin once he's gone is just too convenient. Wolves had a massive bounce in results. Is that due to Gary O'Neil? No, course not. A good Manager can turn a team around irrelevant of who came before. The issue is we haven't upgraded our Manager. This is on SR.

It's a 10 year plan, and the club knew that. We'll be pretty rosy next season due to this.

Yeah, let's see.

I must have missed the Juric win... I'm not saying Martin is good, but we have a Championship team. It's a hard league and we've recruited the majority of players for next season.

Look, I get it. We had everyone saying it can't get any worse than Martin. Now it's looking like it might have got worse, we've got to blame it all on Martin. I get it, it's saving face. It's like the Brexiteers blaming COVID for the shit show that is 4 years post leaving. I understand.

Nope, not saying it was acceptable. Don't have a problem with him telling the players how much he loved them though. Happens all the time in the NFL and they're not soft.

Saturday was worse than anything I've seen from Saints, period.

Again, never said it was - point was for the Chelsea and Spurs game was that we'd moved away from keeping possession for the sake of it.

I didn't? My point was it has happened more since we moved away from a possession based style.

Instead of 2's or 3's it feels like it's more 5's now. Either way I think we looked worse defensively on Saturday than any other game this season. And it was against the worst away team in the League...

This isn't the 80's mate, players don't react to hairdryers. They want structure, tactics and nurturing. It's not a case of just pumping it forward and kicking a boot at the players if they make a mistake.

Archer isn't a player for a Martin system, he's for a quick counter team, so he can play off the last man. A Martin team doesn't play that way. Downes can only play a possession game - he's rubbish at everything else as I warned in the Summer. There was a good reason he didn't get game time for West Ham.

Yep, as a number of people have said on here over the past few months, it doesn't matter what manager we bring in, it literally can't get any worse. Except it can.

Various issues at play here. 1. The players absolutely loved RM. Juric is not popular, already. 2. Defence is not good enough to play 2 CBs. Midfield is not good enough to play 2 CM's. Means we really need to play with no striker to have a chance, but we've already tried that and it didn't work. 3. The advantage of RMs system was that it tended to keep the ball away from the other team so they couldn't attack us as much. Since we started to look to move the ball quicker and surrender possession we have really been starting to concede goals. 4. I don't think our fans fully appreciate how poor these players are versus the rest of the league - they're bang average Championship players. 5. No decent UK based managers wanted the job because they realised this and we're on a hiding to nothing. As I told you all in October, and has recently been backed up in the press, Moyes was not interested as he has enough of a career and enough money to not want to bother with a "difficult" job.

I'm guessing TBF...is it not about me then?

I've got no idea, I don't see his posts unless he is quoted - it's essentially a "man shouts at clouds" situation.

Bit harsh to wish a man who's just lost his job to also lose his relationship isn't it?

I'm no lt taking you off ignore Weston, so stop following me. Even after your grovelling apology via DM - I told you then and I'll tell you now, I do not want to see your posts. I just don't understand why you are so obsessed with having my attention.

It depends what gets agreed with the severance package - some are up front and some are paid over time. If up front I'd expect us to have to sell in January (or sell before the start of next season - so a quick sale along the lines of Fofana's at Leicester).