pap

You can accuse me of self-pity if that makes you feel any better, sir - but it's not the case. You asked a question, you got an honest answer, along with why I believed it. I'm not really onboard with the whole "The Sun is The Sun" argument. It's like validating bad behaviour in an individual because the subject has a history of bad behaviour. I'm not even suggesting that there should be some kind of Sun witch-hunt. Despite JackanorySFC's repeated insistence that circulation figures are good in Liverpool, I know enough people who will never buy it because of the lies it printed about the character of the Liverpool FC supporters on the day. That is good enough for me. You can call it self-pity if you want. I prefer to think of it as a principled stand, and an appropriate response. The Sun is free to print as much sh!t as it likes within the law. What it can't expect is for the people it smears to keep buying it.

I actually do. No other national paper ran that despicable story, yet the Sun chose to. Why is that? The story wasn't even new when it ran (a Yorkshire paper had printed a story). Irrespective of the provenance of the story, The Sun printed lies and put its own sensational spin on it. So yep, animosity totally justified. I don't repeat everything I hear as the gospel truth. Journos have long known the score when it comes to the reliability of any information.

Why generalise in the first place? Specifics are the only fair way to deal with anything. I don't equate the cover-up in Hillsborough with all coppers being corrupt arse-coverers, but the enquiry will throw up some specifics that need to addressed.

Alps, as I hope you know, I have tried to not be a me too bully when it comes to responding to your posts. I'm not writing this to call you names either. I'm actually utterly perplexed at the line you seem to be taking here. 23 years ago, those opinions would have been right at home in the midst of the cover-up. Yet yesterday and today, when the families finally get some measure of recognition about the injustice that they have suffered, they look idiotic and needlessly spiteful. So what's the jip here? Is it a case of you being starved of attention, and this is the only way you know how to get it? Or is this some inexplicably bitter grudge you have against people from Liverpool? Mate, you live in Austria. I honestly don't understand why you get so upset about things and people in another country.

At this point, I've had the 4 for a couple of years. I'm a reluctant Macsturbator. I buy the products but am still critical of their approach on a lot of things. I'm pretty much locked in now, due to app purchases, etc. For all the crap they get, haven't had too many problems with the unit itself. Ms pap has had terrible bother with her HTC, and we've both been burned by Samsung before.

It certainly makes for an interesting case study in what is possible with the right amount of political will, and for those lucky enough not to be personally affected, the biggest lesson to take from this that the authorities are capable of spinning massive lies that betray those that they are supposed to be serving. It'd be lovely if we could say that this was just a relic of our past, that this sort of thing doesn't happen anymore. Problem is, that position is fundamentally irreconcilable with the events of the last decade.

You really pick your moments, Whitey G.

Excellent statement from the PM. Profoundly sorry for the double injustice that the families have endured. Praised the community that backed them all the way. Very moving, and if I'm honest, never thought I'd see the day, let alone a Conservative Prime Minister handling the issue so sensitively, eloquently and unambiguously.

I really do appreciate you trying to gee me up in these dark dune-less times, but It's not the same, mate

I seem to remember the mobile phone companies paying billions for 3G licences. I do wonder how many of them actually recouped the cost of those licenses through 3G itself. Better than the stuff that preceded it, but as Tim says, far too slow for anything other than an emergency. I tend not to buy 3G versions of iPads and Kindles, etc. Wireless is near ubiquitious at the moment, which has been a factor in my decisions. Another factor is just the hassle. Fair enough, I can live with a SIM card for my phone, but one for each device? Nah. Not remotely worth the benefit. Good to see Southampton get first dibs on the new tech, but 4G will need to be everything they say it is for me to start considering 4G models of anything other than a phone.

So no Ads appearance? Shame, but no chance of him getting crocked on the pitch.

England are not looking great atm. Hodgson got to take a gamble.

Was living in Milton Road at the time. Saints' last season at the Dell, iirc. Mate called me while I was cycling from Swaythling back to my place. Put the telly on and watched Sky News for the next 11 hours. Slowly but surely members of the shared house came in one by one, each transfixed by what was happening in New York. The one phrase I heard more than anything else that day is that "it's like something from a film". It really was. No one knew what would happen next either. The circumstances were unprecedented. The US had been attacked before; but in Pearl Harbor, the closest comparable atrocity, the US was attacked by an easily identifiable nation state nemesis. Contrast that with the rather nebulous Al Qaeda, seemingly impossible to track down. How do you attack them exactly? Some people, who I disagreed with at the time, insisted that the US would just go on a rampage across the Middle East. I think I'd probably agree with them now. That's pretty much what happened. The right thing to have done would have been to haul Bin Laden and co up in The Hague on trial as war criminals. Failing that, the option the US eventually took - surgical strike on the perpetrators, would have been better than what actually happened. Namely, invading two countries, one illegally and under cover of British deception - killing over a million, and all supposedly to get their hands on 19 guys and some imaginary weapons. Our response was akin to using petrol to douse a fire. After 11 years, we've created more extremists than ever existed in the first place and introduced some massively dodgy legislation. I have no idea if anyone noticed, but we've got an Enabling Act lying dormant in the form of an Act of Parliament. For those who can't be arsed to click the link, we introduced a bill in Parliament in 2006 which allows the law to be changed at whim. It has restrictions, but oddly enough, none that apply to self-modification. So while you can't currently create new law with a custodial sentence of more than 2 years, you can use the Act to change the law, then do it anyway. That seems like a massively dangerous bit of legislation to have on the books if you're a fan of democracy and a police state hater. 9/11 was the crime of the century, and my sympathies go out to those that lost their lives and the loved ones they left behind. Some of the images from that day, particularly of those survivors looking through the husks of windows, still haunt me to this day. The ripple effect it created is far larger, and permeates every part of society. It's a lot of things; security at airports, distrust of strangers, racism re-entering the mainstream through the "they're extremists, innit?" backdoor, invading countries on a whim, prominent scientists who strenuously disagree with the Government's view on weapons in Iraq suddenly deciding to commit suicide. Mostly though, it was about the re-emergence of fear as the prime political tool. Bush famously said that terrorists wouldn't change the way we live. I suppose he is technically correct; the real attack on our democratic rights was conducted by our own politicians. I'd much rather we followed the advice of one of the greatest Americans, Benjamin Franklin. They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

A touching sign-off to a former comrade. I used to like arguing with dune. His responses typically constituted sneering reinforcements of what he imagined mob sentiment to be (the Liverpool jibes a very good example). I am running out of people to argue with. Hypo can be neutralised with a reference to his purity and even Turkish and I get on these days. I'm hoping that buctootim has a bad day in the near future and comes out swinging. He is very good for a beef.

We don't need a new dune. I'm the new dune. We are exactly the same in every way. We only differ on who we believe should owns the means of production*. *Copyright stevegrant, shortly after a row with me. (I may have paraphrased).

Is this the new hangout for the losers of the GR transfer thread? Weren't right then so start a thread about how the money was mis-spent? When we haven't seen two of our signings play?

So we've got around 80 days of civilisation left?

Just reading some of the press stories on this now. Three years ago, bottom of league one. Now Ads is being called up by England. The stuff of fevered football-related fantasies (so I'm told). I really hope he gets a chance to shine and cement his place. I know we've had a couple of players briefly flirt with the England squad. Ads has got the opportunity to become a long term part of England's future. Doesn't have the baggage associated with Le Tiss and Beattie, and has been consistently good when fully fit. I'm excited about an England game

Man gets hit in groin with football. It won an award, y'know. EDIT: It's "Man Getting Hit By Football". In light of my original error, I am pleased to provide the whole film here:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1LWhNpTJU

Super job on the call up, Mr Lallana. For me, this is a bit like the scene in Goodfellas where Henry is explaining why Tommy becoming a "made man" is such a big deal for him and Jimmy, like they're getting made by association. I will not get an England call-up. I'm 37 and was always crap at playing anyway. So Ads getting a call up is the best I can hope for More seriously though, very good precedent and should act as inspiration for anyone in our team with aspirations of getting an England cap. The news has made my Monday.

What's with all this Bear sh!t? Doesn't Bearsy take exception to people messing around with his username? Or is it just if you add letters to it?

Just got back from seeing Dredd 3D. Have to admit, I was a little underwhelmed at the trailers I'd seen in recent months. The wide shots didn't look like my Mega City One. My interest was renewed when I discovered it was an 18 certificate. Yes, I'm genuinely that shallow sometimes, but with recent movies geared to hit that magic 12A certificate, nice to see Dredd go the complete opposite route, especially as that what serves the source material. The story does the sensible thing, focusing on Judge Anderson's first day as a rookie with Dredd assessing her performance. It's a smart move because it allows Dredd to provide exposition without it really sounding that way. Anyway, both leads are very good in their roles. Kudos to Karl Urban; I don't think you see Dredd out of the mask. Very refreshing to see an actor put the character before the ego. Judge Anderson, one of the biggest deals in the comics outside of Dredd himself, is also very well cast. Olivia Thirlby does an excellent job of providing a bit of humanity in Dredd's universe. This is not the most expensive movie you'll ever see; I suspect a big part of why they're releasing exclusively in 3D is that a lot of the scenes are close shots, which work really well in the format but might look a bit "made for TV" otherwise. It is uncompromisingly violent though, and as someone who is a fan of the comics, it's damn good introduction. Hopefully they'll get to make another armed with a bit more cash.

Finally watched the mini-finale of Breaking Bad. In scope, it's the best yet - and there have been some very good episodes.

I'd agree, The Kraken. I have a quick temper, but I normally cool down. Loads of people on this board have annoyed me at some point or other, but I'm sure the same is true in reverse. Opinions, innit?

Nice to see enthusiasm for a thread I suspected might have none. I remember the Amstrad well. Mate of mine had one. Initially, he just had a green screen monitor, but one day, his old man went out and bought a TV modulator and a compilation of games made by Elite. Gained a lot. Of respect for the CPC that day. More vibrant colours than the C64, for sure. Ms pap also talks of her CPC fondly. Glad you mentioned Psygnosis. Didn't like everything they released, but was impressed with the vast majority of it. Four of us used to play Hired Guns every week, which was a truly smart game. I had completely forgotten about Nitro too, so thanks for the reminder. Might track that one down for Amiga Forever (very good emulation package). Something of potential local interest is an old graphical text adventure thingy. It is called Mindfighter, and to my knowledge, it is the only video game that is set in Southampton. It's a post nuclear Southampton, I grant you - and the game didn't review well, but still, it's there for curiosity value.