Gemmel

THe fact that it is only secured against one years income, means the loan is less or equal to the frst year parachute payments (If it was hgher it would have been secured against the other years as well) which appears to be 16 million. Given what we have spent on transfers, additional wages (Including the current squads wage going up due to promotion clauses) training ground and Aviva (4 million due on promotion to Premier league) then that is a realtively small amount. We are a Premier league club, with Premier league expenses, but as yet without the Premiership money, which is staged payments throughout the year. Taking a step back, it is quite obvious there would have been a short fall and that some sort of funding would be required. I guess a lot of fans assummed that would come from the family, but the fact we are taking it from external sources, suggests that is no longer the case - Which I personally have no problem with. If that is taken as fact, then a lot of fans will need to reset their expectations. What I do think is a positive, is the reaction on here from the fans. Whilst some posts are moaning at the reaction, I would point you down the road, where they questioned nothing, rolled over and had their belly's rubbed and just took everything for granted- They didn't even know there was still a charge on fratton park. So I actually find it quite reassurring that so many people are questioning it and exploring the "What if's". It might not be the best analogy, but many years ago when I took a new job in London, I almost doubled my salary, but needed a loan for the train season ticket so I could get there.............. Saints are in the same position, the revenue will double. but they don't get it all at once and still have the higher costs to service in the mean time, so a loan is needed. Let's just hope I am right :)

Actually just working that through, if it is only for one year, then the debt couldnt be larger than the the first years parachute payment. Anyone know how much that is

Huge difference (Regardless if this turns out to be a bad thing) we are borrowing against money that is ours - Just not in the bank yet. What we can be certain of, is that the loan is less than the parachute payments.... as in the debt is less than the asset.

One quick thought..... I don't know when all the Premier money is paid to the club, but assume it's stage payments ove the course of the season, so may be this is just a loan for cash flow purposes until all money is paid. What I do think we can reasonably assume, is that we are no longer bank rolled by the family. The timing of coverting the loan to equity would suggest that was their final gift and the club will now self fund. Not overly worried, but would welcome more details

Steve Grant to provide more information from Companies House Later. andy curtis ‏@saintgert RT @upthesaints Should fans be concerned #saintsfc have taken a loan against future tv revenue ?/yep - that's how leeds went bust Details Expand Collapse Reply RetweetedRetweet Delete FavoritedFavorite 44m Glen DLC ‏@L1minus10 @saintgert @upthesaints not quite. Leeds bet on Champions League qualification every year.... Details Expand Collapse Reply RetweetedRetweet Delete FavoritedFavorite 39m andy curtis ‏@saintgert @L1minus10 @upthesaints Same principle. Leeds bet on future revenue streams that didn't happen. How many years revenue incl in SFC loan? Details Expand Collapse Reply RetweetedRetweet Delete FavoritedFavorite 32m David Up North(ish) ‏@S13SFC @saintgert @L1minus10 Where has all this talk of loan against future income come from?? Details Expand Collapse Steve Grant ‏@SteveGrant1983 @S13SFC Companies House. Will have details when I get home

If i start this by saying that Cortese is one of our best ever signings and recognise the huge amount of success he has bought to the club, then i hope you realise how highly i rate him...... that doesn't mean he is above criticism. I know a few people who work for the club and would never post on here anything that could get them into trouble or more likely sacked. If you want some sort of validation on any of the stories that do appear, then make some friends at the club, failing that the only suggestion I can make is to check the accounts when they come out and see if there is line item for legal fees.................

This should be intresting

It's actually a half decent statement / letter but there are a couple of points worth exploring 1) The bid must be confidential. Really? The first bid they put in was publically available. That was the one that slashed the football creditors (Already compromised) compromise agreements, to around a massive 25% of what had been agreed (A cynic, might suggest that they wanted to use the rest of the parachute money, to sign better players on bigger wages as opposed to pay the hero's and legends (pompey fans words) that tore up their contracts to save the club. And of course the very same bid that was laughed out of town. The new confidential bid is supposed to cover the missing 6 million - Just a shame it's confidential and no one can see it. 2) So this property developer is going to buy the ground from Chanrai for 2.7 million, which Chanrai has rejected and will defend in court.... Not charge the pst rent for the first year and then give them back the ground, once they have planning permission to develop on the land they already own.....and all within a year? What jolly nice property developers they must be. Unfortuneatly my business acumen, doesn't extend to the point of being able to find any commercial sense or viability in that arrangement at all - I will have to just stick at being a nutjob.

The thread owes us a laugh. The smiles generated by the suggestion that portpin are about to take over, need replacing with belly laughs when they actually do. It will likely bring a lull to the thread, but the minus ten and hopeful relegation should keep us going, but whatever the outcome, the thread will be reborn in 24 months, when the final parachtue payment is paid and the football creditors demand their cash.

http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/portsmouth/fb_news.php?storyid=18287 Some of that is just hilarious ..... Can someone remind me how much the trust were offering for the club? .....correct that will be nothing.

I can't believe you have opted for a TV, when the obvious choice surely, is a pst pledge

The problem appleton has got, is these other managers are patting him on the back with one hand and then walking away with the three points with the other

Yep that's the one

We used to have a charter on our website when Markus and Nicola first took over. We were then (I think - happy to be corrected) in breach of our own charter (Over Nick Illingsworth season ticket resolution) and from memory liable for an FA fine - No idea if that was ever implemented. The original M&N charter also spoke about season tickets being available over installements, so I think that was another reason it went. I also think (And again happy to be corrected) that it is an FA requirement to have the club charter available on the web site (If a club has one) or available on request....... This is applies to all standards and age groups (Kids football included).

First time I ever heard my old man swear - Joining in with the rest of The Dell "Bailey is a ******". Was just a kid at the time, but seem to remember the whole crowd, to a man, singing it.

Everton - But I think you have to be of a certain age and remember Mr Heath

The last sixteen of any cup starts to get intresting - One win away from a quarter final and we all start secretly dreaming, (whilst dismissing it on message boards as not important etc.) Nice easy home draw..........

Just to cheer you up Ken, The "Bleeding Heart Yard" is in Farringdon, right across the road from; PKF Head Office and exactly where old birchy boy is based

Matty's celebration for the 4th goal when he skidded on his knees, was the front page of the Ugly fanzine next edition taking the **** out of him. ( I can't remember what I did yesterday - So why do I rememnber stupid ****e like that!) Also think I remember Matt saying in one of his interviews, that this was one of his favorite games

The only potential value is if everything is pulled back together - The club, the ground and the land from gaydamak. If Chinny takes over, there will be no cost (Or a nominal pound - Think Terry Venables) and he will bring with him 5 million pounds worth of secured debt - But it wouldn't mean much in the grand scheme of things as he would have a club to sell (Again) and have ownership over everything as opposed to just a charge. When he sold to CSI it was for around ten million, plus they took on the liabilities of the old CVA, so we get an idea of what he will walk for. The old cva is now diluted and is done and dusted for a million quid (Slightly less than the 18 million from CVA 1) plus the players compromise debts of 8.8... Which basically is the outstanding parachute payments (I am sure that the FL, FA and PL will get together and have these payed directly to the creditors, without Chinny getting near them) ....So ultimatey if the club trades within its means, Chinny gets the lot to sell on at some point in the future. And that is my best guess for where the deal is to be done, although Phil's point about using it is a tax write down, is an intresting theory. So it all comes down to what league they end up in by the time Chinny finds a buyer and what someone is prepared to pay for the bestest. BUT.... at that point in time they will be debt free, have a manageble wage bill and be self sustaining..... It's about finding their level. At that point, my money is on Mandy Mandric to make a second coming.

The loyalty scheme seems to have grey lines. I boought 11 tickets this morning for west ham from St Mary's - no queue at all (Just read a post about maximum 4 in one transaction, which is either not right or they are not enforcing it).t I said to the lady that, given the loyalty points scheme, it would make it harder for some people to ever get enough points to get to some maches and she replied "No", we will keep changing the games that people would have had to have been to - To which I said yes, totalling of the loyalty points, but she was adament, that some tickets sales will be based on specific previous matches as opposed to a points total. It is easy at the moment as there have only been (Previous to west ham) three matches on sale, but I am not convinced the whole model is in place or understood by everyone.

Can't see it Torres. If you think back to the conditions of the golden share and how much debt could be taken over etc., that was clearly aimed at Portpin, basically saying they could take over on these conditions............ He's already passed in my opinion.

Well they don't seem to be taking the news to well down the road. They can't seem to get past the fact that although the trust had no money, couldn't gurantee the football debts and were dependant on a property developer to buy the only real asset, that the bid wasn't actually that good. Oh well - As Trousers said another lost two years to look forward to.

(Feel free to delete Lounge post - not sure whether that was me or mods) Yesterday at the Alfred, was as bizarre policing as I have seen. I have travelled home and away for 30 years without too many incidents, but the last four or five times I have seen any trouble at St Mary's, I personally believe the police are to blame for at least two of them. It's a strange theory, that mosty law abiding citizens would dismiss out of hand, but having seen the dynamics of policing football first hand so many times, (You could state the outcome twenty minutes before it happens), it's not something I can keep passing off as"bad luck". Yesterday at the Alfred, there were a lot of Villa fans all mingled in wtih Saints fans..... But not a hint of trouble. Then the police turned up... I don't know if they were caught unwares that Villa fans would be at one place in numbers, but they didn't like it and a few clicks on the radio and suddenly they were mob handed. Now the trick here is to guage the atmosphere and "Feel" whether there is trouble (I am not quite sure how to explain that, other than the fact that I can tell almost instantly if the atmosphere is hostile or if there is potential to kick off) or to stay or go. Well after they ushered everyone (That had been there for an hour or so without issue) back on to the pavement etc, it ended up with a group of Villa fans together and the rest Saints - Previously everyone had mingled without issue and the whole dynamics changed. It was now far more confrontational and became "Them and Us". The police then proceded to form a ring around the front of the pub and what appeared to be the main man (Copper) with orange lapels, then bought out the cam corder.- Just to add some extra tension . Now, I am sure they will cite the fact there was no trouble or arrests as vindication, but that really doesn't tell the story. There was never going to be any trouble and the only chance of that happening was AFTER the police got involved and the reality is, there hasn't been ever. So why the police thought they needed to "Spice" things up a bit, I have no idea, but i got the feeling they were willing it on

Yesterday at the Alfred, was as bizarre policing as I have seen. I have travelled home and away for 30 years without too many incidents, but the last four or five times I have seen any trouble at St Mary's, I personally believe the police are to blame for at least two of them. It's a strange theory, that mosty law abiding citizens would dismiss out of hand, but having seen the dynamics of policing football first hand so many times, (You could state the outcome twenty minutes before it happens), it's not something I can keep passing off as"bad luck". Yesterday at the Alfred, there were a lot of Villa fans all mingled in wtih Saints fans..... But not a hint of trouble. Then the police turned up... I don't know if they were caught unwares that Villa fans would be at one place in numbers, but they didn't like it and a few clicks on the radio and suddenly they were mob handed. Now the trick here is to guage the atmosphere and "Feel" whether there is trouble (I am not quite sure how to explain that, other than the fact that I can tell almost instantly if the atmosphere is hostile or if there is potential to kick off) or to stay or go. Well after they ushered everyone (That had been there for an hour or so without issue) back on to the pavement etc, it ended up with a group of Villa fans together and the rest Saints - Previously everyone had mingled without issue and the whole dynamics changed. It was now far more confrontational and became "Them and Us". The police then proceded to form a ring around the front of the pub and what appeared to be the main man (Copper) with orange lapels, then bought out the cam corder.- Just to add some extra tension . Now, I am sure they will cite the fact there was no trouble or arrests as vindication, but that really doesn't tell the story. There was never going to be any trouble and the only chance of that happening was AFTER the police got involved and the reality is, there hasn't been ever. So why the police thought they needed to "Spice" things up a bit, I have no idea, but i got the feeling they were willing it on.