Professor

A foul can be 'careless' or 'reckless'. According to the FA rules, a foul caused by carelessness needs no other sanction than a free kick, or in the penalty area, a penalty kick. If 'reckless' the player is to be cautioned. Only if a player uses 'excessive force' are they to be sent off. Therefore the ref could have given a penalty and not shown Krul a card at all. But if the ref decided that the contact was caused by both players going for the ball and not due to carelessness, then it could not be a foul.

Wes, I think the point you have missed is that it didn't feel much like a family club in the early summer when many people, not just amongst the fans but in the media as well, were expressing concerns about meltdown. It does feel so much better now but your own response shows how much bitterness is still just below the surface. If the board are working to mend the fences, so much the better but suggesting that the positive moves now may partly be a response to what went before isn't 'having a go at the chairman', it is simply noting that out of disagreement may come accord and that a bad time may be the incentive to do better.

No one can get it right all the time and Kruguer didn't get it right at the beginning of the summer when the club first of all failed to communicate and then communicated inaccurately. Those loyalists who say they had no doubts during that period aren't even being honest with themselves when they now abuse other dedicated fans who were truly worried about how things were going. Whether it was always Kruguer's plan to rebuild as successfully as we have, or whether it should be Koeman who deserves most of the credit, we may never be sure but either way, we do have a genuine feel-good factor that wasn't always quite so evident, even during the success of recent years. As Chairman, Kruguer is fully entitled to take the credit for that and he may well have learnt from the events of the summer. One thing that would help the family feel though, is the hands of the users of this forum, which would be to cut out the abuse that is used to decry statements of opinion. It is sad to see some fans claiming they are true fans and that others are not when in reality we all support the same team and should all be on the same side.

Is the Alan Pardew, who some (arguably ignorant) Newcastle fans are abusing with such foul language, the same man who was Premier League Manager of the season in his second full year at Newcastle? The same man who also won the League Managers Association Manager of the year and is the only English manager to win two individual awards in a single Premier League season? Maybe Newcastle fans should check out his pedigree on Wikipedia. He also took their club into the Europa Cup as recently as 2012/13 by finishing 5th in the Premier League. Obviously, managers make a difference, but lots of other factors apply as well, such as who is operating the transfer/recruitment policy. If all 20 premier league sides could be managed by clones of Alex Ferguson, only one Alex Fergusons would win the title and three of them would be relegated, so it's not all down to the manager.

I agree with that but still have reservations about Kruguer because back in May/June he seemed to be inaccurate in what he had to say. That could have been down to poor briefing but statements and actions did seem to differ. We don't know why he changed tack over Schneiderlin or whether he could have done that earlier over any of the other departures. Its true we do have a better looking squad than it appeared we would have at one stage and Kruguer has overseen the team that achieved that. Whether that was down to judgement by Kruguer or a panic-driven change of course, we don't really know so it will be interesting to hear how convincing his answers to Simon Peach come across.

Not at all an unreasonable reaction. It was an unbelievable window in the sense that no one would have predicted that half of the regular outfield players in the first team would be asking to leave at the end of such a successful season. Because the exodus was player-led it didn't appear to be the club's plan to make such a fundamental change and it presented a difficult task, to replace those players with similar quality. In pre-season the manager did what you might expect, which was to see if players from the development squad were ready to step up but ultimately, whilst one or two may be used in the squad, first choice players were recruited by transfers and loans over a fairly short period, and right up to the closure of the window. That adequate replacements were achieved was quite remarkable and overall it would be hard to believe that a decent looking squad has been the outcome if we had not seen it happen. We will never know if we would have been better off in terms of performance, if those players had stayed, or if squad strengthening would have been financially viable. We still don't know how the new looking squad will perform but the next three games will be a good test. It's good to see Steven Davis reflecting what looks to be a good attitude in the squad and if the new players are picking up on that the future looks positive. Oddly, the one departure that I have no regrets over is Pochettino. With Koeman coming over so well, I wonder if that's how the longer serving players such as Davis, feel as well.

Don't recall adopting you as a 'pal' but if you don't like reading my posts you are free to add me to your ignore list. I've now done that for you.

Under FFP, the teams that are widely regarded as the 'big clubs' make huge sums of money from selling replica kit which helps fund their activity in the transfer market. We must be light years away from that and if this year's kit isn't even good quality that will have done nothing to encourage future sales. Southampton seems to have little market penetration beyond Hampshire and it will need success on the field for that to change. I walked through a garden centre today where they were selling shields of Premier League sides, cast in concrete, to decorate a garden. There was Liverpool, Man Utd, Aston Villa, Arsenal, Newcastle, Tottenham and others but although this was in the South of England, there was no Southampton. We have a long way to go and maybe Adidas next year will be a step in the right direction - as long as its stripes.

I'm afraid I disagree with your interpretation, but does it actually matter? A professor of psychology might find this forum a splendid source to research the motivation for insult trading. Thanks for your contribution.

They did tell us what they claimed their plans were - that the best players were not for sale and they would bring in more to improve the squad. Whether it was accident or design that caused that to change is what much of the arguing has been about, but by the time they were talking to Long, a new transfer policy was in place which has regained the confidence of the fans, (or most of them), and it seems has also gained the confidence of the players.

Yes, I was proud when we had 4 academy players on the pitch in the PL but that looks less likely this season. But the title of this thread is a bit of a fraud as Reed isn't near the full England squad. It's been pointed out that his use in a training game came about simply because he was there with the younger age group and wasn't going to play in his group's match. Lastly, the comment about the actions of the board seems to be on the wrong thread and has already been done to death elsewhere.

I have CB Fry on ignore and hope he has done the same for me. You can't learn very much useful from people who have a closed mind and can't influence someone who already knows it all. In Mr Fry's case debate is anyway stifled by the use of unpleasant language so now I only see his posts when someone bothers to quote them.

I'll go for Shane Long.

Not an opinion shared by the England manager, who chose him as second best English LB. Although its fashionable to decry the England manager, whoever he is, Roy Hodgson probably knows more about football than your average fan. Not only was Shaw second choice to Baines it was also doubtful if he was better than Ashley Cole who lost out on the England place for lack of games due there being an even better LB at Chelsea. That would seem to put at least 3 LBs in the frame to be as good as Shaw. Southampton have also borrowed quite a good one in Bertrand.

There are still 6 or 7 Academy players, or u-21s at least, who have been allocated squad numbers as well as 2 or 3 out on loan. Having, rightly or wrongly, sold 3 who have been picked for England, doesn't mean there aren't others coming through. Just hope this isn't the future because the concept of a Saints' team consisting of 50% academy products was an attractive proposition and something fans would be proud of.

Although Boruk hasn't been with Southampton for long, he came here just when we needed him and apart from one especially ill-judged attempt at playing CB in the penalty area, has done an excellent job for us. Inevitably, age is beginning to count against him and the competition he is now faced with for the GK spot is substantial. He could take over from Kelvin as No.2, have a few games a year, and stay here for several more years but if he decides to fight against Old Father Time somewhere else, he deserves to wished Good Luck, as it won't be easy.

Quite true. It is the Southampton Academy that makes the difference as the only big sale that wasn't an academy product was Lovren. The trouble is that as a Saints' fan I don't feel the same sense of pride about our academy when the players are playing elsewhere. Whilst it's unrealistic to include the Walcottt, Bale and Chamberlain sales in the equation, you can't help wondering if we might have had a Southampton team capable of holding it's own in European competition if all the players were still here. The new squad still has to prove itself before we can think in those terms.

If any other club wants to emulate Southampton in bucking the trend they could do so by selling 5 or 6 of their best players and buying cheaper ones to fill the gaps but many people would expect the level of a team to go down in doing that. Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal must believe that higher prices get them higher quality players and that they will improve their teams. There are exceptions to the principle that value equates to quality. Torres is one well-publicised example but at Southampton we could look at Ramirez and Osvaldo as two who didn't fulfil the expectations of their purchase price and Lovren who exceeded expectations. Whether our transfers in are 'Osvaldos' or 'Lovrens', or if we have some of both, we will discover as time goes on. So will Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal.

Like that Ed Chamberlain paragraph on Saints. Its good to see that some positive stories are beginning to replace all the negative stuff during the summer. He does also mention some of the Man U signings and it will be interesting to see if they work together or if they struggle as some clubs have in the past when trying to buy success with the most expensive star names. Sometimes its works, as it did with Blackburn when they bought Shearer and Flowers from Southampton along with other expensive signings. In effect Jack Walker bought a league championship for Blackburn. We've become used to Chelsea and Man City doing the same but now it seems they are joined by Liverpool and Man Utd with Arsenal and Tottenham close behind. If those six clubs tie up the top six spots in the league, money will have spoken, whatever order they finish in, but two of them can't get into the Champions' League and those two will regard that as failure. If Saints finish 7th, that will be a fantastic achievement, and not at all easy to do with plenty of other teams also having brought in new players. But the prospect of breaking the grip of the millionaire clubs looks very difficult, not only for us but even for over-achievers like Everton. The other problem of course is that if we do well again this year, which players will be filched from us in May, if not before?

Dear Mr Fry. Unless you have a direct line to Ed Woodward, we can't know what was in Man U's thinking with regard to the price they paid for Shaw but we do know they are desperate to qualify for the Champion's League this year, so short-term seems to be their priority over potential. It seems reasonable to assume that in spending something like £150m on players they think they have assembled a better squad than if they had spent £75m. Southampton sold the expensive Shaw and loaned in the cheaper Bertrand, but I doubt if many would agree that Bertrand is the better LB. If he was, Man U would have probably gone for him instead. Skill and ability will always be the major factors until age begins to diminish values. Please feel free to reject this drivel, and maybe, don't even bother to read it if it upsets you. I wonder if you have this problem with the customers at your Fish and Chip shop but perhaps you don't really Fry at all.

I do agree that your Lallana example is pointless but if you own a house and would like to sell it to me for what you paid for it, I might be interested! Opinions are free and you don't have to agree that more expensive players are usually the better players but it is a measure widely used by football pundits. Of course, they could be wrong as well. Sorry you couldn't remain polite while debating but I really don't mind because insults tend to undermine the credibility of the person making them.

It does mean that we have sold 4 full England internationals. That must surely be unprecedented. We still have two more in the squad (Forster and JRod) as well as a potential England call-up for Clyne. Was it really unrealistic to think that this team could have reached the Champions' League when it was supplying so many players for England without taking account of quality players such as Schneiderlin, Wanyama and Lovren filling the non-English gaps.

How much are you paid for your opinions or are they as worthless as mine? Never mind, lets all continue to give them for free, which is why an anonymous forum is entertaining. If you did actually blank out views you dislike they wouldn't upset you but isn't that part of the fun?

Unless the people who run clubs like Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal know very little about football, a player's ability can be judged by what he is worth in the transfer market. There are some well-publicised mistakes under that system, Torres for one, but largely it will be true. Those clubs only pay huge fees for certain players because they are operating in a market that is subject to the rules of supply and demand. If they could get other players who were as good or better for less money they would do so, but they obviously believe that they are buying the best. Maybe, at Southampton, that theory is under challenge. The club has sold expensive international players who have Premier League experience and has replaced them with cheaper players, mostly also internationals but mainly without Premier League experience. If cheaper really does mean lower quality then the team should be expected to do less well than last season. If it matches last season's performances, that could be regarded as a successful challenge to the theory, if only because it would have been done whilst also putting money in the bank. If the team does less well than last year, that will tend to support the theory that price reflects ability. As a fan, I'd like to see the theory blown out of the water, but as a pragmatist, I can't feel too confident about that. Hope and belief are too different things and hopes are not always fulfilled. I see 1st October as the next good date for a comparison, 3 more games under the belt with an equal number of home and away matches having been played. A target of 11 points out of 18 would match how the club was doing at the same point last year. Currently they are on 4 out of 9 but with 2 of the first 3 matches away and 2 of the next 3 at home, this is eminently doable if the team perform as we all hope. At the moment all we have are expectations and a good performance at West Ham. In a month's time we will know more.