dubai_phil

And will you please show me where I have DENIED Global Warming?

The IPCC report is mentioned in the Telegraph Articles above. Bad Science or Bad Scientists? Yep I had read both sides. I also work locally with the UN on CER programmes, and we have carried out a great deal of research and work to get the Government down here to become aware of the harm of not just Greenhouse pollution but also the entire pollution caused by The capitalist System being fed by the Communist system with no thought for the future, and I have given papers and presentations on Green issues in Europe & over here. I fight the cause for the Planet, which means being VERY aware of how vested interests and Politicians and Business screw with us as humans

So what will be more effective as a solution? Reduce the imports from Countries that continue to flaunt UN regulations by imposing Green Taxes on them? or Tax the UK population even more?

OK, so the Climate Research Department of the University of East Anglia employed Good Science to produce the report to the UN that empowered a great deal of the bandwagon jumping? http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-generation.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/20/climate-sceptics-hackers-leaked-emails And the response http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy It was normal practice. No that's fine but the first Telegraph article shows how this LIMITED data was then used and abused to drive the Climate Change bandwagon. Was it BAD Science? Well I argue it was. Lies damn lies and statistics is my view. I would have far more confidence in it IF it had been drawn from MORE research, more variables and inputs.

Over 90 years the average temperature will increase by 2C and maybe 5C. And during the next 90 years what other factors are there that could impact onto that scenario? Here is one - China's economic bubble bursts, the Yuan rises and the world can no longer afford cheap goodies. The Chinese factories will reduce their emissions (remember the build up to Beijing) Or maybe the Sunspot cycle will reduce the amount of radiation hitting the atmosphere? OK Let me try a different route. Emerging Markets pollute far more than the developed world (apart from maybe the Yanks) For every Carbon Offset you guys do, some factory in China pours more krap into the eco-system. An EXAMPLE of The British solution to global warming is to tax airport passengers. That (as I argued above) is stupid as those transit passengers fly using other routes. How about THIS as a better solution. Ban ALL imports from countries that continue to exploit cheap labour, build factories that cause FAR more environmental damage smog etc than the entire UK. Ban all trade and aid to countries that continue to destroy the one REAL solution to Greenhouse gas growth - The RAIN FORESTS. but oh no, you all drink your Brazilian coffee, buy your wooden furniture and your Gizmos. UK is making an effort but WHY does it have to be targetted at YOU. You have already learnt that you need to take care and recycle, but China? Parts of Belarus & Ukraine? Parts of Vietnam? The precious metals and rare earths being clawed from under forests in West africa or in China? No the answer is not to make the people raping and causing the greenhouse gases STOP, you idiots all SUPOORT it by buying new tablet & Smartphones!

The Wiki article shows that there are huge gaps in the research and the data. With global warming, there are huge gaps in the data (like the previous history of the actual climate data for the previous several million years compared to the last 40 as a VERY simplistic example) I am arguing that MUCH MORE needs to be added into the equations. Examine a dead skin cell under a microscope. A scientist then cannot produce a photogrpah of what you looked like from that dead cell. he can INTERPRET what you looked like. Science is about recording facts and making interpretations. IF you have not included every possible variable in your initial research that is Bad Science. OR if you do not STATE what variables you have not been able to include then that is also bad Scientific Practice. Global Warming may be very real. It may be very false. The impact on the insignificant blob of the planet that is The UK is totally NOT understood. So you take incomplete data to make a decision - in business people get sued or arrested for that (read about Ernst & Young being sued in US for not including ALL possible data about Lehmans) Just IMHO it is wrong to use Global Warming as the excuse for decision making. That does NOT mean that I do not believe that The World should not work on Holistic and Integrated solutions and take care of the planet. FFS I run a Green Company trying to reduce Toxic Waste poisoning! Climate change has been proven to occur, the Earth Cooled and Heated up regularly. Global Average temperatures have been proven to be increasing. But that does NOT mean it is ONLY greenhouse gases. It is like saying Saints lost their last game because they scored less than the opposition. It may be true but it doesn't EXPLAIN the result! And making critical decisions based on incomplete science is NOT wise.

Which is what I said The CLimate is a highly complex system with MANY factors influencing it, and we do NOT understand all the influences. Global Warming - a fear of a SLIGHT increase in average temperatures... The Government and Industry (especially BAA) think Global Warming so invest the money in a certain direction. But they make the decisions on something without complete data. Global warming could mean the Gulfstream stays in the mid Atlantic and you get these winters for the next 20 years. (I said that as well) while the Maldives still get flooded. The Warmist argument is incomplete and it is Bad Science.

Actually - you lot lost that one already. You all demand cheaper and cheaper goods because "The Western Life" can be generalised as "Must go shopping every week for the latest fashion/gizmo" You all work (or use Dole money in skatemuff) to buy your MP3 players & Iphones or latest Primark goodies. Which all goes to China Who have then been running around the world buying up farmland, natural resources and the like, There's a global recession yet commodity prices stay high. They worked that one out years ago. BTW just so others clearly understand. You SHOULD ignore The Sun. It's a rubbish paper. But don't ignore Solar Fluctuations. And as for bad science, anyone remember all those awful floods and devastating weather in latin America about 15 or 20 or more years ago? First time we ever heard the name El Nino. Where is the science that actually says the UK should be warm and habitable? Look at Scotland and the valleys made by Glaciers during the ice age. Where is the proof that atmospheric emissions haven't actually made the UK habitable? Left Right. Green Warmist Capitalist Communist. All "positions or ideals" that affect people. The left are (apparently) those seeking to protect the planet more than the right. And yet the heaviest polluters and destroyers of the environment were the old Communist system and now the "Socialist System" in China. (Although they are getting much better these days, it's good for PR so they can get more of your money to buy more Natural Resoources in advance)

Does Mike Tyson singing in The Hangover count?

Sorry, error in your first line. Which is often ignored by Warmists. There is also the argument regarding the output of the Sun which will have an impact. "Greenhouse gases" and "Particles" will be a part of the machinery. At the end of the day if the amount of energy hitting the earth's atmosphere decreases then the impact of what is in the atmosphere is also affected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation The point is that it needs a Holistic approach to ALL factors, not just ones that support one side of a debate. The data on Solar fluctuations is not yet "Good Science" yet there is enough "known unknowns" for it to have a probable impact. To base decisions affecting the economy and the human race on only one piece of a jigsaw is wrong. Equally to implement policies and plans that damage the competitiveness of a Nation or Continent under the guise of "being green" without taking the rest of the world with it is also wrong. So mix Bad or incomplete Science with Michael Crichtonesque State of Fear mentality and you end up screwing yourselves over. The argument - someone has to make a start. Good examp[le the extra Green Airline taxes for flights through UK - reduce flights you all say, save the planet. Rubbish, 40% of passengers through Uk are transit passengers going somewhere else. They simply stop using UK and spending money with airports and airlines and fly on routes that don't attract the taxes. Your economy suffers and you don't have enough income to implement other more important changes or research into alternative energy. Holistic approach and an integrated approach. Don't take only ONE thing all the time.

That will teach me not to read every new post that comes on here during a day.

Unfortunately I agree with the basic premise of this. Gravy train, get on board. Climate change - what does it actually MEAN? OK so much ice melts and waters rise and oops sorry Maldives. Or does it mean the Jet Stream & Gulf Stream stay where they are now and UK & Western Europe get the winters they should get based on Geography not quirks of nature - eg fecking cold in winter & hot in summer Thing is climate change means average global change, but so many people have made assumptions NOT based on science (as we don't HAVE enough Empirical evidence) as to what that COULD mean in terms of LOCAL weather. Pretty sure the idiots running BAA will be trotting out "Global Warming" as their excuse for investing only 500k in snow planning (half the boss's salary) and a fraction of the pain & loss the public have endured, and yet if the Gulf stream moved the WRONG way by only a few hundred miles UK could get like the US East Coast with Ice Storms and all that malarky. But don't mess with the source of funding if you are a Scientist, go with the flow, it's so much easier. I'm in the nobody REALLY knows what Climate change will do on a LOCAL level camp

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Snow-And-Ice-Aviation-Expert-David-Learmount-Says-Britains-Climate-Makes-Airports-Hazardous/Article/201012315863350?lpos=UK_News_First_Home_Page_Feature_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15863350_Snow_And_Ice%3A_Aviation_Expert_David_Learmount_Says_Britains_Climate_Makes_Airports_Hazardous Realx, Just everyone has to start packing and move to a nice warm beachfront property in Greenland

Jack Nicholson to the Martian Ambassador in Mars Attacks. Why can't we all just get along?...

http://en.news.maktoob.com/20090000538780/2010_s_world_gone_wild_Quakes_floods_blizzards/Article.htm?utm_campaign=Night-Newsletter&utm_medium=Main-News3&utm_source=Night-Newsletter&utm_content= Now THAT is an interesting article. Earth strikes back. As for my input on the debate, I go way back to the TV series & book that first got me interested in The Weather. Time Magazine decided we were all going to freeze to death back then in the 70's and today we are all going to fry. The weather ALWAYS changes, every day, we need to understand that global warming may move the Jetstream or the gulf stream or el nino and make UK colder or Dubai wetter while roasting the Aussies. I reckon you guys should start to worry about how to cope with Glaciers forming in the South Downs.

Interesting read the last day or so of this thread. Maybe there is hope for the forum after all ! Those last 3 words sum it all up, I guess until a poster meets AP after a big night out with Ashley, we'll never know. He's gone, he would have gone at the first chance, we need to play some football so we can get the bad performance out of our system on here and on the pitch (insh'allah as we say down here)

Correct. I am neither short nor do I wear a toupee (sic)... Still at least I got out, unlike so many poor sods at Heathrow. How come Gatwick got working? How come Brum with as much snow got working and yet Heathrow.... The stupid thing was that flights were leaving Brum with empty seats and yet I was listening to radio in London about people trying to get home to Ireland or Europe for Xmas marooned at LHR. The airlines offered refunds, couldn't have been THAT hard to take a train or a rental car up to Brum if you were THAT desperate to get home. But I also know it doesn't help many holiday makers and transit passengers.. Oh and LHR is not the only refugee camp. Dubai Airport is full of stuck transit passengers sleeping on the floor, hotel rooms here are all full with the stuck as well.

Heard the news this morning while trying to get out of UK. That report was one of those moments that one will never forget and which the youngsters will never quite understand how he got around the strict reporting restrictions of those days by saying what he did Very sad, and as you say, how strangely symbolic in the timing

Which was to feck off Been trying to do that for 2 days!

Just a minor point, Heathrow is a war zone and chaos. I rebooked via Birmingham to get home. Amaziung they have the same snow, was -10 last night and yet all is calmness and peaceful here (nightmare drive up from London yesterday not included) and the flights are running and have seats. Emirates have bused people up from Heathrow, and the airport has plenty of capacity. Seems nuts BA cant get some planes into here and use buses. But then my lad is stuck in Frankfurt & been trying to get on FlyBe since Friday Ho hum Merry Xmas one and all stuck here in the cold I've had enough & am ******* off home

Lol. hehehe OK time to board. Keep it up England!

Wow, I get all through the airportr, get to the lounge and get online and Wow. What a fantastic start, and great toss to win. Hussey again bloke deserves a medal compared to the rest of the Aussies & Haddin still to come and Smith can bat better than North Aussies wanted to get 450+ to put us under pressure and the old men failed again. Don't want to get them out TOO quickly, let them nurdle up to the low 200's and take the sting out of the pitch and let the cloudy skies go away It could be all over by the time Skint Saint gets there

Great start Tremlett! Absolutely what we needed. Send the newby back in his first over, now keep the noose round their neck and don't get carried away by bowling short! Good toss to win. Feck gotta get off to the airport grrr

So looks like they opened their Beer too soon and as we all know you leave it around for a week and it goes flat. Big day ahead, big big moment for Mitchell Head ain't there Johnson and Chris oh I'm sorry I didn't mean it, gosh oops tough guy Tremlett. IF England get through the first session without being blown away on a tide of Aussie emotion then can only see it going one way, especially as they seem to have designed the perfect pitch for Jimmy Anderson (hello, Convicts, our strike seamer's actually quite good on green wickets) Will catch a few seconds before hopping a flight to blighty. REALLY ****ed off I couldn't stay on the one going to Melbourne that I was on for a biz trip Monday. Perth or Bighty for the weekend, great choice feckwit

Oh great My Xmas pressie delivery run is looking like a couple of days marooned at Heathrow then. Oh well, that's Saturday likely solved, family it is then.