dubai_phil

I'm with Tim on this one, we are rebuilding, we're winning back the fans and most importantly we're attracting the next generation of fans - the kids to watch us. The longer we stay in the Cup, the more people will talk about the cup run. The 4th round IF we get that far is still early enough not to interfere with a possible run to the play offs but gives an extra buzz. Nobody remembers who gets knocked out at the big clubs except us when we repeatedly get shown the goals against us as they proceed to Wembley. We're not ready for PL opposition yet. Maybe when after the January window we will be stronger and we could actually give the fans a day out to remember. FFS we had enough days out in the PL & CCC where we were bilge and depressed. Liverpool away 7-1, was that a big day out? Was it fook.

It appears very likely that it will have to be sold. Nakheel (and to an extent Dubai World) made a series of "investments based on ego". They will have to have a fire sale of some "tokens" of their "stupidity" which will be forced on them as part of the bail out. Forcing them to sell the QE2 at a huge loss will be the perfect "spanking" that the impetuous child needs. So, yes it is likely to be sold, yes it is likely to go cheaply, but I expect some casino in Macau will snap it up, but it WOULD be great if it could be taken back home

hehehe Love to see how the PR machine eventually sorts this one out. Sounds more and more like a 7 iron to the back of the head..... Something's not been right with the man for a while. Perhaps we're now seeing why

Boro at home. Give WGS the welcome Then give his boys a good whipping

The idea was to use it as luxury hotel accomodation for the Prawn Sandwich brigade at the World Cup. Nakheel paid $100mil for it. Should be able to pick it up for $10mil in their liquidation auction next month . I've got my sights on one of them "The World" Islands or DP World's nice new Golf Course - should be able to pick one of them up for the 7 dirhams I found down the back of my sofa earlier this year.

Will be interesting to see how the fall out from the whole Dubai default could impact on the financial prospects of this week's owners. The Saudi banking system is a mess due to the $1bil ponzi scheme there, (Al Gosaibi & Saad) and "emerging markets" in general will suddenly find things more difficult as money gets pulled into safer havens. If nothing else, it will make future borrowing or guaranteeing loans more expensive.

Lol, I LOVE typing errors. Was changing my Wycombe prediction to 3-2 and actually changed the Northampton one by mistake. Thank heavens for the blind ref and the dodgy penalty. Woo hoo!

Ah, so that's what Tor is. Very useful for expats allegedly

Pretty much spot on although it is possible to argue the last point, but that depends on how you view life. Although the locals don't care who they force off the road btw

Totally agree Hypo. My point is simply that there is a mind set in the UK. It applies to everything, celebrities, sports stars and the like. Build something up, hype it to death and then bash it. Reading much of what has been published even in the past few days, there are so many errors, so many regurgitated 6/8 month old facts it beggars belief. The attitude of every Journo is "ha ha they went bust" there have been very few (apart from some of the independent experts) who have tried to actually analyse why or how. What I learnt down here is how simplistically I used to view Johnny Foreigner when I lived in England, I was programmed by the media. The stories are stereotypical, but see what the reaction is when you get a stereotype thrown back at you. There is a lot more going on in the world at the moment. My point is that the media had jumped onto the 'let's all have a disco" recession is over bandwagon. This should be seen as a bloody big warning shot across the bows. Who lent the money to employ the labourers? who borrowed the money to buy the property. It is not as siimple as it is being made out

Another away win. Boring. oo AP out, drop the entire squad. We want inconsistency, we NEED to moan

doh

There could have been penalty yet Merrington is still trying to learn how to tell the time WTF?

Don't be silly, desert was a nice Rioja while watching Hull equalise hahaha

shhhh... they're visitors, they don't get kimball ketchup back home. Eric - guess hwo changed it from 1-3 to `1-2 doh 4-1 man yoo yes what a great day

Steaks were good Port Wine reduction was excellent Onion rings were over done cos I was dancing round the kitchen when we went 2-0 up Think we now know that there is no Sky curse, there is simply a Phil & Eric at Goodfellas curse. COYS keep them down to 1 I need the points to catch Eric Oh BTW the Chateaue Neuf du Pape was excellent

A lot has happened, it is not enough, but it IS happening http://business.maktoob.com/20090000001540/Dubai_launches_random_labour_camp_checks/Article.htm http://business.maktoob.com/20090000001127/EXCLUSIVE_Inside_Dubai_s_labour_camps/Article.htm http://business.maktoob.com/20090000001154/Dubai_police_warns_firms_over_rights_abuses/Article.htm

It's a well known Chinese Takeaway, popular with tourists

Again, no denying that what went on and still does is appalling, HOWEVER, these articles keep missing out important facts. 1) These promises are made in their home countries by Citizens of their own country. These fees are (in India) paid to Indian Companies owned by Indians. These companies keep the passports, they make the promises on salaries. It is only AFTER they arrive in Dubai they realise that they have been duped. This is nothing less than Human Traffiking, it makes no difference whether it is labour camps or prostitution, people exploit the weak. It is ILLEGAL in India and it is controlled by the Indian mafia. How (for example) would a British Company recruit 1,000 labourers for a project they won in Dubai - they went to a labour supply company, who went to a man who went to a man. It is immoral illegal but it is not JUST Dubai's problem. You are better off asking the Indian Government and the Indian Airlines why they don't stop it at source than requoting the Brit Press all the time. As I pointed out, the growth was so fast, there was nowhere else to put them. Again, it was wrong, but the customers demanded their properties were finished on time... As for strikes - well that is another of the great issues, using a Western "viewpoint". Western laws and culture have evolved over many hundreds of years. 40 years ago this place really was just a desert trading outpost. The FUNDAMENTAL difference is that down here you are a guest. You come here with Caveat Empor. If you assume it is the same as UK (as I did when I arrived and found to my SHOCK that I had to work Sundays) you either adapt or leave. You have NO rights, if you don't like it you leave. A strike is illegal, however emplyees ARE allowed to make a case at the Ministry of Labour and there have been many instances of labourers doing things the RIGHT way, travelling to the Ministry to show their support for a petition which in almost every case has been upheld. Throwing stones at trucks in the desert gets the obvious response. Now again, the PROBLEM comes from those who really are at the bottom of the pile, those who have been conned/sold etc. Since the Panorama documentary a great deal of work has been done. Arrests have been made, new camps have been opened and the worst of the slums have been cleared. The fact that those actions co-incided with the general downturn helped speed up improvements but the fact is, like with the children forced to ride camels, they did take notice and did start to do something (but that sort of news never makes it to UK papers) Now the central issue time and again is about "Values. Perception or Filters". This is NOT Europe, it sure is not the UK. Political Correctness blinds many to the fact that in the real world you have to make a choice. You can choose to try and better your life by paying an illegal agent to take you to the promised land, but when your choice was stupid who is to blame? You can buy a house in a country where it is still technically illegal to own property in the way you do in UK, you make your choice, who is to blame? I disagree with the corruption of the Political Classes in the UK, with the lack of moral standards in the "yoof" culture. I chose to bring up my children in a land where I never feared for them getting into Drug cultures, where they could go out at night on their own even at age 10 and come home by taxi ALONE. Where their whole future life was not tarnished by having some teacher with a political agenda to ram down their throats. Where I don't have to lock my doors and where if I had a nice car it wouldn't get keyed by some jealous no brain. For every labourer who was conned, there will be 10 who were not conned, who are working and making more than they ever could at home. But that doesn't "sell" papers. The critical issue is to stop the slave trade while implementing safety and improvements for ALL the workers. Dubai is not nor ever will be anything other than a place where man rips off fellow man. It is and always will be a City with no soul. But remember, it is a Muslim City, that is the way things are. And, when they win World War 3 it is the way everywhere will be. I love what this place has given me the chance to do and to see and to understand. But you are right, it is also a hell hole for the blind, foolish or unwary

Sunny actually rang Jay and confirmed it was on, he's on his way there now but like you, I want to win this game so no way I'm going there!

OI! :axe: Stop damaging the supply chain and drinking my Cab Sav. Tough call tonight I am supposed to cook Tournedos Rossini for 5 people for 8:30pm (who's STUPID idea was THAT). Wireless doesn't reach into the kitchen, GF late home. What to do? hmm off to buy a 20metre long network cable methinks Am on a bit of a run and closing the gap on you in the Prediction League, took me 10 minutes today to find myself - was unexpectedly on page 1 woo hoo!

lol hey as ATC, you have to stay at work to get all the planes off the ground as everyone evacuates. Does that leave you as the man who'll end up having to turn the lights off? Meanwhile, first 3 house guests have landed. Am awash in Duty Frees - hooray! GJay has been on about watching the game at Goodfellas tonight. As it is a Cup Game and I have a 100% lose record down there I'm staying in and Duty Free Chateau Neuf Du Pape'ing tonight!

Many long traders here got insanely rich trading with Iran, then lost much of it in the local Stock Market crash. They just recovered in time to lose it all again in the property Crash.....lol muppets! The Asian labour problem is also not as simple as the Daily Mail types make out... Historically an example - a tea picker in Sri Lanka earns less than US$1 per day for back breaking work ($30 a month av). That same woman could earn $150 a month here as a housemaid with her electricty, accomodation and water paid. Now it may seem a pitiful amount in the West, but imagine a factory worker making 5 times the salary of his mates in the pub and for far less taxing work. One maid could house and feed her entire extended family... So in the OLD days, the same applied to labourers, they could come here, earn $150 a month digging holes in the sun or they could chose to stay in Asia hanging around in their village (ain't no dole there dudes) or IF they were lucky, digging holes in the sun for $30-50 a month. Over here, they had accomodation and food and basic healthcare. Sure they were worked hard, but while they may not have had a choice during their contract, you have to understand - be worked to near death but make money in UAE or scratch a mere existence in a remote village in Kashmir? Then the boom. Tens of thousands of labourers were needed almost overnight. But guess what, the MONEY was in building the Villas and Tower blocks, Nobody wanted to invest in Labour Camps, so all these workers were inported with nowhere to live - except for 40ft Containers in the desert. Again, Greed and a lack of "Holistic" planning. Remember, the growth happened so fast, the workforce quadrupled in less than two years, even IF they started to plan labour accomodation it was taking longer to build and demand was outstripping supply. Sure, Panorama et al did a great job of exposing the nightmares, BUT the DEMAND for the property came from - Overseas Investors. "You" all "HAD" to have a piece of the action, when a developer announced a slight delay even in the good times they were hit with a torrent of abuse and threats of legal action. Now the NEXT problem was the "promise" of "great riches" (well, $150 a month instead of $30 a month) but then when you lived in a small village in India, how did you get a job? The answer was the spread of "Recruitment Agencies' They are completely illegal in India and yet they flourished. In the same way that (many) builders in UK will do a job for cash, so blind eyes were turned here AND in India. These people who ripped off their OWN people were ASIAN, not Arabs, THEY demanded sums of up to $3,000 for a job, visa and transport to UAE, and of course, many unfortunate people agreed. They gave their passports to the agents and voila, trapped. Paying back the loans, living in containers, no money, no papers and no way out. $3,000 at $150 a month takes a long time to pay back if you have to eat each day. The larger construction companies were never the worst offenders, it was the smaller get rich quick subcontractors (and yes that included many overseas companies). What happened was inexcusable, but one really important point, making judgements from a "Western" perspective about wage rates is never wise. The flow of cash from the Gulf into Asia is a significant part of the economy of nations such as Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines And the sub-continent. Unfortunately they really are not treated well. After all Westerners love shopping in Primark etc where a 1.99 pair of jeans had to be made in a factory somewhere in the world.

Nah we old timers aren't getting anything off our chests (apart from a hangover from the damned flu). What we are doing is finally getting the chavs out of here. Hopefully now they can all feck off back home and spend their days boring YOU lot across Europe (and Aus) with how much money they lost and how often they sh*gged Michelle on the beach

So, why Wednesday night? All the media pointed to things being done and restructuring on the way. Early last week stories about Dubai raising $5billion Bond against 2 Abu Dhabi Banks.... Hmmm They were after $10bil from the Central Bank. Why would that have happened? Sheikh Mo appears in photos, meeting the Queen, Gordon Brown, David Cameron, sort of a State Visit without the State visit? Hmm the favourite scuttlebutt (or IMHO) down here is to blame the Americans. Something like 40% of the Trade of the "pre-property" Dubai was with Iran. You name it, it goes through Dubai. Every Multi-National here knows the rules on Iran and follows them to the letter, so their products flood into Iran... Iranian goods come the other way.... Meanwhile Abu Dhabi wants to build the Arab World's first "US Supported" Nuclear Reactor. Meanwhile, Israel wants to blow the carp out of Iran's Nuclear Weapons capability.... The Yanks drum up world support for tighter Sanctions against Iran, but oops there is a very big hole in the net called Dubai. So Israelis pull the Yanks tail who tell Abu Dhabi if they want a reactor they have to stop Dubai breaching all the global sanctions. Abu Dhabi tells Dubai we'll lend you the money for your bond but you have to tighten customs controls and stop selling to Iran so openly. Dubai is already in the poo. Many Arab Nationals borrowed heavily in the property boom and are in real trouble, their ONLY way to pay back the debts is to trade their way out, which means selling MORE stuff overseas... And along comes Abu Dhabi telling the guys here they have to sacrifice some 40% of their export trade..... And Dubai's answer was pretty damned clear..... But where it goes from here? deeper and deeper as other black holes appear. So Banks lent to Dubai to build stuff.... But how many Banks then lent to "Westerners" to buy property down here? And that property now is worth 40/50% of what it was listed at, but won't be built for 4 or 5 or 7 years... Sub Prime mark 2