Matthew Le God

Lets have some fun Turkish... Tell us what you believe concerning God and why you believe it

My magic beans are more magical than badgerx16's bean, plus they come with a free Meerkat cuddly toy. £200 per bean Batman... interested?

Spin off thread! There is no good evidence for ghosts either Batman!

Yet again you are reading things that aren't there! Yep, no God required to create a country it is a man made process to create a country. Solely down to the effort of people wanting to create Israel. What do you think God did to help? The self fulfilling part I was talking about people working towards making Israel a country. The countries to the north is not what I was talking about. If the predictions came from God there is no need for them to be so vague. No years mentioned, no leaders mention... no countries mentioned. An impressive prophecy would mention Putin by name. In part that was the reason... yes At no point did I say it was the sole reason

I did not say they would fufill self prophecy I didn't even mention them. When talking about fulfilling self prophecy I was talking about Jews wanting to create Israel because of what it said in their own Holy Book. There is no prophecy regarding Russia, Iran and Turkey!

1) The prophecy does not mention Iran, Russia or Turkey. 2) Even if it did mention them, explain why it would have to be all or nothing?

No where in that post do I make reference to Russian, Iran and Turkey. Nor does the Bible mention them. My post is solely about Jews working to make Israel. You did to look closer to home for dense... because you seemingly are unable to read and comprehend the English language!

You call me dense... yet make up things I didn't actually say!

When did I say they would be self fulfilling a prophecy? I didn't! They are not mentioned in the prophecy!

How does that blow apart my argument?

Not a good idea!

Why not state what you believe regarding God and why?

What goalposts have been moved? I said Jews worked towards building a nation for themselves.

The creators of Israel were Jewish, Jews have the Old Testament as the core of their beliefs... why would they not model it on their own scripture of what they believe their God wants? Would be odd for them to go against their own Holy Book wouldn't it?

I'm not sure why you find it hard to believe that Jews who have in their scripture that a Jewish nation would be formed wouldn't attempt to form a Jewish nation. People creating nations happens and we only have evidence nations are formed by people. We don't have evidence of God's intervening, so the latter is clearly significantly far fetched. It is by definition irrational to believe in something without good evidence to support it. Belief in any God lacks good evidence and so is irrational. ...or can you provide some good evidence to support a God claim?

I've been unmasked! While we are talking about the devil... the devil doesn't kill as many people as God in the Bible. Is the devil the good guy in the fairy-tale?

Which is more far fetched...? - people create a country (which they have been doing for a very long time) - a God for whom there is no credible evidence intervenes and creates a country You are just creating your own definitions now. People believing want they want is fine to a point, the problem is many let their irrational God beliefs impact on their actions and their actions impact on other people and society. That is an issue that needs to be tackled.

Still no comment from you on... 1) self fulfilling prophecies 2) vagueness of prophecies without names and dates

But you did tell me... you said 'You're an agnostic' Which isn't the case. Why is it 'far fetched'? At what part of the process of the creation of the nation did God intervene? People creating countries is not far fetched, we only ever had examples of people creating countries. No examples with good evidence exists of a God creating a country. To think a God intervened to create a country is far fetched, given the lack of evidence. In any case you'd need to start with good evidence for the existence of the God itself... which is very much lacking.

Such as...?

I'm an atheist. An atheist is someone who doesn't think the claims of theism have met their burden of proof. There are only two options... 1) atheism - you don't believe the burden of proof has been met 2) theism - you do believe the burden of proof has been met There isn't a middle ground, you either believe or you don't believe. If you aren't sure then you don't currently believe and so are an atheist. To dispute people created Israel is bizarre. The only way a country can be formed is by people, it is a social construct.

Sugar

Why do you believe in God? They are not coincidences! The prophecies in the Bible are so vague they are worthless as predictions. If they are prophecies from God why not name names, name dates. Instead they are extremely vague, largely without time limits and people try to shoe horn them to match events 2,000 years later.

1) Did they work towards creating a country? Yes, I really don't see how anyone can dispute that! 2) 'planted oil in it' Where in the Bible does it mention oil being in Israel??? Plus oil is made of creatures that are millions of years old. The Bible states the world is 6,000 years old. 3) 'Russia, Iran and Turkey have sent soilders to the Northern border of this country' Where in the Bible does the Bible mention that those countries would do that?