Guan 2.0

I see that you have chosen to use feigned ignorance as a shield against criticism. Very well. You knew that you couldn't openly question the authenticity of the images, it is a photo taken in the aftermath after all. So instead you make grubby accusations without any basis, hoping to taint it, as when you said: "I do wonder however just how those pictures became such public property? If some official gave them to the media and some money changed hands ... well then I would hope that most on here would agree that this would be distasteful - to put it mildly". This after claiming that no-one needed to see the photo. Good of you to decide for everyone that it was unnecessary and off-limits. "Others may feel that publishing/broadcasting images of the Paris massacre victims (for example) is both offensive and unnecessary - afterall we do very well know what happened without having to see it. " Attempted stealth censorship and denigration at its, well, not finest - but certainly its most sloppy and self satisfied. An Image that i CHOSE to post on here? How very dare I. By the way, you can just say "mountain from a molehill", but i know your posts are thin on actual content. It's strange, your idle thoughts look just like the attempts of a derogatory mind making grubby insinuations about materials which show the full scale of an atrocity that you've spent the thread equivocating about, in which anybody viewing it might then unconsciously associate it with being a form of paid propaganda, rather than a visual witness statement. Again, a well known and hollow rhetorical device. Ironically the painting you that you chose to post to depict Christian violence, Le massacre de la Saint-Barthélemy by François Dubois, was created by a man who was not verified as being present for the event, but did lose a relative to it. But I guess important issues like neutrality and veracity of information don't matter as much when you post images, as much as half baked aspersions do when others who disagree with you, post material that clashes with your viewpoint. How about a police officer who shared the image? Or does that description sit ill with you, as your language puts the source in the realm of bureaucracy and paid informers and/or terrorists. In fact, the image is a snap shot on a mobile phone, not any high resolution crime scene photo, so your allegation doesn't hold water on that front, and the image has since been shared freely across social media and websites, before being picked up and censored by the mainstream media, so monetization seems unlikely if not impossible. You are looking to establish unreasonable points based on a flawed presumption. You have spent a thread based around the reporting of, political and personal response to, and proposed reaction to a carefully orchestrated and pitiless massacre, carried out by a De Facto state that enforces Islamofacist ideals, by posting images of Nazi apparel and 16th century paintings when posters were discussing modern Christian equivalents to ISIS, desperately trying to lessen the debate by sniping at various posters and trying to jam other threads into this one, derailing the topic by likening disreputable and unsubstantiated hypotheticals to points of order that must be addressed, and trying to detract from the main discussion by creating side issues where there are none. Despite this, you somehow seek to present up as the great iconoclast, or worldly (or should that be wordy?) arbiter of virtue. Which, given your actual contribution to the conversation thus far, is staggering.

As Stalin is oft quoted as saying (most likely inaccurately), "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic". History has shown us that the higher the death toll, the harder it is for the public at large find to to truly comprehend the depths to which oppressors, murderers, and torturers will sink to achieve their aims. ?You make the claim that . But the truth is in the Image that coveys the horror in one shot, not a description that may be edited for reason of decency, or use poetic reflection to disguise the scope of the carnage in fear of causing 'distress'. No words can aspire to encapsulate the unforgiving reality of the 'Bataclan Photo'. This is pretty poor fare. The position you're trying to use as a reason to invalidate the image is nothing more than a hypothetical scenario you've conjured up from thin air. This is not the first time a false stance has been suggested, that detracts from the known facts of the massacre on this thread, but I would hope it is the last. After the Lockerbie Bombing, the photographer who captured the immediate aftermath and the effect on the local population received no remuneration after his Photos were wired out and used in papers worldwide. He never chased it up, as he reconsigned exactly what it was he was portraying, and that it was what the world needed to see. During the First World War, Mail sent home was censored, and D-Notices were used to suppress any images that the government found 'Unhelpful', usually any that the depicted the monstrosity of the Western Front, or repugnant conditions it was fought in, and the levels of inhumanity needed to survive. Images had to be smuggled, and this led to a widespread ignorance of the War and its toll on the veterans who returned, especially concerning shell shock, and what we would today classify as 'PTSD'. Ironically, after these lessons from history, there are sections of the public and the media arguing that we should protected from 'harmful' news and media. For what ultimate purpose, I won't speculate. But it does remind me the instructions (particularly #6) given to prisoners of the Khmer Rouge during the Vietnam war and Cambodian Genocide at Security Prison 21.

Your statement is full of contradictions. You say that your main point is about how effective the strikes are perceived as, then say it depends on the fact that the strikes don't work if civilians are harmed. You then seemingly believe that that the opinion of Ayman (not his real name) that Is not pertinent information, despite being a voice from an activist who risked his life to provide the information, and it showing the strikes were targeted against military targets (I have no information yet about any possible collateral damage), and that at the time of his report, ISIS members had been killed and not civilians. You somehow claim You had started your comment to which you attached the link and quotes with But in spite of that statement, you either copy and pasted around the information from ground sources, or copied the whole text and decided to delete it, despite it meeting your own criteria on western forces targeting the correct people. You then end taking a cheap parting shot by asking which part of "The west having to tread carefully in any military actions in the middle east do you disagree with?", possibly to hide the fact you had just tried to cover your deliberate excision of relevant information, and subsequent confused attempt at re-definition. All this despite the fact i had said nothing of the sort, or alluded to it. I've noticed this tactic of obfuscation and deflection, and the attempt to create a non-existent opinion to argue against, so I'll ask again A) Who has said we shouldn't tread carefully in any military actions in the middle east? B) Do you believe that information from ground sources on Civilian casualties is relevant to the perception from ground sources and civilians or not? C) If you do believe it is relevant, why copy around it when you present your argument?

Wow. That's some pretty selective editing. I've restored the section in blue that mentions the targeted strikes by the coalition (including France) which the Syrian activists proclaim have not targeted civilians, but have killed ISIS members. Inexplicable that you somehow skipped the section directly between the two paragraphs in your copy-paste, as if it didn't fit the framing of the viewpoint you were advocating for. A) Who has said we should bomb every town in Syria? B) Who has said that making 'Piles of bodies' is a solution to the current wave of attacks? C) If you are referring to the French Air Force bombing the ISIS Stronghold and de facto capital of Raqqa, are you equating targeted strikes on military strikes, to the picture above where concert goers and civilians where subjected to torture and slow slaughter in the name of religion? D) If you're not actually using false equivocation, then why make such facetious remarks on a thread discussing a massacre, unless you wish to derail it or create a false position to argue against? E) Why do you advocate for the suppression of an image that shows the true cost of a massacre against concert goers by religious fanatics, and claim it is due to respect for the victims, when earlier you suggested immediate negotiations with people who use execution and torture as a day-to-day function of Government. Given that dead had not been buried yet, do you not think that this insensitive to the injured and families of the dead F) If you don't advocate this, do you believe that the only acceptable images and articles are those that pursue a pretence of feigned normalcy? Are you saying that when the public see images of Massacres they are just 'gawping', and not in fact, trying to understand the extent of brutality and inhumanity visited upon a group of concert-goers, and by extension, the level of future violence that threatens all those who do not obey the tenet of Islamic state? When we were undertaking our module on 'International relations and conflicting Crises' we had two experts, one from BBC North West, the other a Journalist during the Rwandan Genocide. The Journalist spoke of the frustration of those on the ground, as they were unable to convey the true levels of depravity taking place, as the Government of the day argued that their reports were 'Unpleasant'. Despite an eventual relaxing of the rules (bodies were able to be shown face down with bloodstains, but wounds were a no-no, the journalist called this pose 'False sleepers'). Due to understanding that was reached under Chatham house rules, and with help from sympathetic regulators, these rules were pushed and eventually broken. The BBC director mentioned hat after the Second World War, people were in denial over the atrocities committed by the Nazi's until they saw the mountains of naked, rotting bodies that had been left in their wake. He wished that there was a recognition of this fact in upper management of all the broadcasters in this era, as people do not bleed pixelated blood when you slice their stomach open, and their heads to not automatically blur when you shoot a bullet through them. Which is what some would have portrayed, rather than show the reality of the massacre , which happened only six (6 )days ago.

A) Who has said we should bomb every town in Syria? B) Who has said that making 'Piles of bodies' is a solution to the current wave of attacks? C) If you are referring to the French Air Force bombing the ISIS Stronghold and de facto capital of Raqqa, are you equating targeted strikes on military strikes, to the picture above where concert goers and civilians where subjected to torture and slow slaughter in the name of religion? D) If you're not actually using false equivocation, then why make such facetious remarks on a thread discussing a massacre, unless you wish to derail it or create a false position to argue against?

Think before you post, don't be an utter fool. It's because it's the special kit for when all those nameless minnows play their Cup Final at Fortress Fratton. Where the occasion (and best atmosphere in world football) is too big and gets to the referee.

For those who previously were unaware of the cartoon, (i hadn't seen it), the cartoon is below. I can't speak to exactly what the cartoonist was reaching for, but my inference (and i realise this is my opinion only) is that the cartoonist is labelling all Migrants that are being processed throughout the EU as out-and-out Jhihadis, otherwise sinister 'Fellow Travellers' or a literal pack of rats. It's as nonsensical as it is mean spirited. However, I find some of the other reaction just as wilfully blind. Imagine on the Piano, Flowers will defeat Bullets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VPpoQwicmE, Free hugs, Ignoring Allahu Akbar chants during a minutes silence for the victims of Islamist violence etc.. These are beloved by the a section of the public, who for some reason feel a shield of goodwill would shelter them from any danger. I wonder if those in the Bataclan would have rather had an Armed Policeman on hand while they were being literally gutted on the floor, tortured for the amusement of religious fanatics, or if they thought that flowers and candles would prove a sufficient deterrent to such actions occurring. I felt the Heavy Bombing of Raqqa was actually a measured response given the circumstances. For free speech to take place, the original materials must be made available.

His point was refuting a statement you said on past transgressions of both Christianity and Islam (I happen to agree you you on this point). However, you then claimed he made an argument which he didn't. If you can't back it up with a quote, and his words remain unedited, then your claim is no good.

Having read posts 320 + 326, i don't see any evidence that anyone has said that "they are all plotting to kill us". What he does say is that he disagrees with your view that Christianity is just as bloody as Islam (I'd disagree with Griffo, certainly in terms of historical campaigns). But you should probably stop saying that someone has said something that they haven't.

Show us who has said that then, if the thread is littered with such wrong-headed thinking.

Oh **** a duck, look who is coming on!

Sterling and Bertrand best cobination and main outlet in first half. Second half, Roy Switches sterling to the right. #ClassicRoy

It's almost as if England wasted an entire qualifying campaign, where they were gifted some of the weakest opposition imaginable, and instead of looking at bring through a crop of in-form players who were showing why they deserved to be in the national team, he built the squad around getting an out of form and past-it forward so he could claim a special badge for scoring penalties against dog-and-duck level opponents, picking big team bench players as he went. It's almost like that, but the FA are a progressive modern organisation with a long term plan, right? P.S. Delph plays after what, 94 minutes all season?

I watched highlights of their loss against Liverpool, and noticed that after regaining the ball from a failed corner (they were attacking) Bournemouth passed it straight back up the field to their keeper. If this is a regular tactic, to try and shield Distin (now aged 37), our CM's really need to harry so that Mane and Tadic can benefit from misplaced passes.

Liverpool. Would rather have them at this stage.

Absoultely dreadful thing to happen, but I wonder why the echo mentioned the saints support? Is thre a football angle or just a coincidence? A SAINTS fan has been left fighting for his life after being attacked by a 20-strong gang of yobs in the street. The 47-year-old suffered serious head injuries when he was assaulted by the mob as he walked along the road. Police last night said he was in a critical condition at Southampton General Hospital as they revealed three school pupils had been held on suspicion of carrying out the attack. Two boys aged 15 were arrested at the scene on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm with intent. A third boy - aged just 14 - was arrested by officers a short time later. All three were quizzed and since released on bail. Police and paramedics were called to the scene in New Road, Hythe, around 8.30pm on Sunday - just hours after the final whistle went on the televised Liverpool v Saints match. Link: http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/13899819.UPDATE__Saints_fan_remains_in_critical_co ndition_after_attack_by_gang_of_20/?ref=mr&lp=3 Update As i have been typing this, I have just seen a new article with video (but no audio) http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/video/4584163341001/?ref=vidshare http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/13901938.VIDEO__Youths_goad_victim_after_attack_wh ich_left_Saints_fan_fighting_for_life/

Exactly. Not exactly an insider secret, but there is virtually no chance of him extending his time at the club. But if he can help entertain a sell out crowd tomorrow, why worry about such things?

Gaston and Juanmi to score, and Saints to get a step closer to the final. Lots of good feeling amongst the squad for this one, which means i fancy us to win 4-0 or 4-1.

*must have

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/13893259.Lallana__Only_a_win_will_do_against_Southampton/?ref=rss “I’m looking forward to meeting up with a few old friends but Sunday is about getting the business done and ensuring we get the three points. “We want nothing less than three points on Sunday.” Old friends? He must of forgot how hard he shat himself on his visit to St Mary's. And the Airport . Let's hope for more of the same tomorrow, so much so that he needs another hug from daddy...

Press conference now:

https://audioboom.com/boos/3702508-saintsfc-boss-ronaldkoeman-reacts-to-late-lcfc-draw-with-bigadamsport

1 makeshift right back, 1 39 year old goalkeeper (Loved him in his day, but even Kelvin will admit he does not expect to be starting nowadays!), 2 players who are coming back from injury, 1 of whom is new to the league. Against a fired up team who are on top. Given these facts, I'm amazed that we drew! However, Koeman should have acted differently. Be interested to hear the timescale for our injuries. and hopefully 7 days of training can stop the media ****ing over klopp next weekend.

We should have subbed on Romeu instead of J-Rod IMHO. We put on another outlet when control was needed. Would also have allowed Clasie to press further forward.