Sheaf Saint

Not sure how they have managed to squirm out of that. Watching the highlights on BBC sport it was a nailed-on red card. Last man - shocking tackle to prevent a clear goalscoring opportunity.

It still seems bizarre to me that they can be allowed to loan out a 19-year-old with no 1st team experience and replace him with a 20-year-old loanee who also has no 1st team experience. The FL need to have a good long look at their rules in this respect methinks.

As a navy man yourself delldays, what are your objections to it? Seems to me that the requirement has been identified and the contract has been given to the best bidder (as it should be) to go ahead. It is a shame that no British companies felt able to bid but, seeing as they didn't, would you rather we gave the contracts to a foreign corporation or just not bother with them at all?

So we still have the skills to build some massive and hugely complex aircraft carriers, but not for relatively simple fuel tankers? I don't accept that. Clearly we do have the skills and the infrastructure to complete the project, but it is obviously a question of economics. There could be an argument that the govt could have offered incentives for firms to put together some kind of consortium in order to encourage it if they really wanted the UK industry to take it on I suppose, but I guess they weren't left with much choice in this instance.

Before anybody gets on their high horse about us not supporting the British shipbuilding industry and protecting jobs, it is worth taking one very important factor into account: Not a single British firm actually submitted a final bid for this contract.

Just look at how much Lambert has improved his overall game by working on his fitness. Fat can come and go but class and, more importantly, a good football brain, are permanent. From what little I have seen of him so far, I have absolutely no doubt that Sharp will score a bucketload of goals for us. When he gets up to the level of fitness that Nigel demands he and Lambert will be unstoppable, and I would much rather have him than Maynard or Vaz Te. The WHU fans who reckon our forwards are too fat to get us promoted would do well to look at what Big Sam managed to get out of another porky former Saint: Kevin Davies. Clueless.

I knew there was a very good reason I had you on my ignore list. You really are a very sad little man if the only way you can amuse yourself is to wind up 'mongs' on internet message boards. Tell me, how long did you manage to stay away after you spat your dummy out recently?

I'm not going to take your bait Turkish so go and find some other 'mongs' to troll.

I'm suggesting that basing a country's laws on centuries-old fairy stories does not exactly represent progressive thinking.

It's worth comparing the UK to other countries where religion is held as a guiding principle of their society. For instance, my brother currently lives and works in Doha, Qatar, which is very much an Islamic country. Even though he is a non-muslim expat, if he were to be caught eating or drinking in public during Ramadan, he could be arrested and fined. If the same could be said of the UK, ie that people could be arrested for working on a sunday or refusing to observe Lent or whatever, then I would agree that would certainly define us as a Christian country. Thankfully, our society is not so backward that religious observances are forced upon the population by law.

And this is why their crying because they don't have enough fit players doesn't wash with me. The article states that Stockford signed a professional contract last summer and played in the pre-season trip to the US. How on earth does he not qualify as a fit, senior player?

Yeah but hopefully with Green out they might struggle a bit defensively. We would have beaten them at Upton Park last week were it not for him. Their next two games are Palace at home - derby game (ish) with no love lost between them so could go either way - and Cardiff away which is no guarantee of points even with a full squad available.

Meh. Sh*te set of results for us but not a lot we can do about it. Positives... * Still in auto places * Still got the best GD in league * Brum still 5 points behind us albeit with a game in hand * Plenty of winnable games left with Blackpool & Boro the only serious challengers we still have to play * West Ham haven't beaten us this season and neither have Birmingham - taken 4 points off each of them Plenty of reasons to be optimistic IMO.

You're talking about things that happened over a millennium ago. How is that relevant to modern Britain exactly? For the last time Turkish - and I mean it because I am not going to repeat myself and indulge you any further - YES, we have many historic references to Christianity in this country and YES, there are many aspects of our culture that have stemmed from Christian tradition. Does that define us as a nation?... NO.

I am referring to when Britain was invaded by the Holy Roman Empire who proceeded to burn down villages if the occupants refused to convert to Christianity.

Sorry, but how do you know that my values are not influenced by any of the other religions you mention? Oh, that's right - you don't. If you want to engage in a debate about this then please refrain from personal abuse, and please don't assume for one second that you know what I do and do not believe and where those values come from - you don't, and you make yourself look foolish by pretending you do. I am familiar with many of the teachings of The Buddha, and I agree with the sentiments of much of it, so much so that I have incorporated a lot of it into my way of life - far more than the teachings of Jesus anyway - because adopting the values he taught do not require an irrational belief in a non-existent deity for starters.

Why is it stupid? Because, as I alluded to in my post you quoted, Christianity was imposed on the public under the threat of eternal damnation in the afterlife if we didn't submit ourselves fully to its values. As pap posted, one of the ten commandments is 'Thou shalt not bear false witness' so the whole idea of swearing an oath on the bible is that if you tell lies in the eyes of God you will be punished for ever and ever and ever. I mean, seriously... Who actually believes that crap in the modern age?

That implies I have read the New testament from cover to cover and live my life according to the values it promotes. I haven't and I don't. I have my own set of morals which I admit are, in some ways, similar to the teachings of Jesus (though there was a lot I don't agree with and therefore reject), but as I said before, most of that is just common sense that most people abide by anyway, regardless of their religious leanings.

Because it is a stupid, bullsh*t ritual that should have been abandoned a long time ago - because I bet the majority of people who appear in court and are required to do it are only playing along and do not actually believe they will burn in the eternal fires of hell if they tell a porkie-pie.

No, and neither do the archaic traditions that were imposed on us many centuries ago. It's all very well public officials maintaining these quaint rituals and the Queen using the concept of God as some kind of divine mandate for her to rule over us, but ultimately it is all meaningless if less than half of the population self-identify themselves as being Christian. The Christian values you refer to (love thy neighbour etc...) do not require submission to a religious sect in order to dictate our actions. Most of it is just plain common sense thinking that people would undoubtedly arrive at if the whole concept of God and religion had never been dreamt up in the first place.

Since when was God limited to just Christianity?

For starters, I couldn't give a toss what Dave Cameron says about our religious heritage. And as for the Queen - she made an oath at her coronation to 'uphold God's law' but has since given royal assent to many laws which go against the laws of God as dictated in the Old Testament, therefore she is nothing but a hypocrite as well. The history of such things as Xmas and Easter holidays, church weddings, christenings etc... are born out of Christian traditions, but have now become so deeply ingrained in our society that we no longer focus on the religious aspect of them. Ask any kid if he is looking forward to celebrating the resurrection of Christ this Easter and all you will get is a blank look - all they will give a toss about is how many chocolate eggs they are going to get. If it satisfies you, I will admit that we are a Christian country only in the sense that our ancestors had their pagan traditions beaten out of them by the Romans and replaced with slightly different traditions that can be associated with Jesus in some way, under the threat of persecution or death if they didn't comply, just like the rest of Europe.

Don't be so pedantic. You posted the fact that thousands of kids get Christened every year is evidence that we are a Christian country. It isn't and you know full well it isn't. I have already agreed with you that many aspects of our modern culture have their traditions in the Christian faith, but do not prove we are a Christian country. Not sure exactly what more you are trying to prove.

Yeah, and thousands of kids have their Barmitzvahs (sp?) every year. Does that mean we live in Jewish country?

I see the point you are making, and you are correct in that a lot of public policy etc.. is dictated by Christian tradition, such as the naming of public holidays and the use of churches for weddings and funerals. But to use this to claim that we are Christian as a nation is a flawed argument. There are a whole lot of policies that are produced from secular thinking as well. If the govt dictates that I don't work on Christmas and Easter, then so be it. I care little for the origins of these holidays, only that I get them and can enjoy some time off work with my friends and family. I often joke at Easter that getting 4 days off work just because some long-haired Jewish bloke gobbed off at some Roman soldiers 2000 years ago and got himself executed is absolutely fine by me.