Micky

There appears to be some very fickle and insecure people on here. Does it really matter what Markus Liebherrs financial status is. He might be a billionairre, maybe just a millionairre, who knows, perhaps just a wealthy man. Does it really matter? It's not the size of his wealth that is important - it's the prudency with which he runs the club. I'm fairly sure that (irrespective of his overall personal wealth) the club will be running to some sort of budget, and it will not be a bottomless pit. Therefore his personal wealth really is unimportant. No, we don't want some JCL without two farthing to rub togeather running the show, but I think, on the evidence of his investment in his first year, he is hardly that. You do not run the MALI group of companies by ****ing money up against the wall, he is obviously well versed in good business practice - so forget his wallet ffs, it's only part of the package. Not so very long ago all of SMS was singing ML name in celebration, now here we are questioning his financial standing. Fickle - not us.

Thats fine but not a lot of good to others if he is unable to share it.

And therein lies the root of the problem, the reason that all right minded fans are looking at PFC now and seeing a pile of dogs shyte. Yes - we did try to pull a fast one, yes we got caught, yes we put our hands up and admitted the guilt, yes we then unloaded a whole host of our best players to right the wrong, and yes we took our bitter medicine and payed a heavy price. By so doing we have regained a little of our self respect and have a brighter future. Not only did you 'pull a fast one', you are still pulling it and getting away with it, effectively sticking 2 fingers up at the establishment and saying that you couldn't give a toss. Your debts are astronomical because you employed players that you patently could not afford. You cheated every single team you played, you now want to right that wrong by way of a CVA amounting to a pitance over a protracted period of time - nice ethics, real nice. The whole situation is obscene for so many reasons - I don't want you to 'die', I don't want you to even go out of business, couldn't really care if you don't get any points deducted this coming season, wouldn't actually give a toss if you got promoted back to the Premiership. Throughout this whole sorry mess your Chairmen, Board, Manager and players have bleated how it is not thier fault - it is nobodies fault, nobody with the balls to take the blame. At least when our club went under those at the top had the good grace to clear their desks and leave quietly. What did yours do? If you cannot see why the flippancy in your remark (be it tongue in cheek or not) causes outrage amongst real football fans, then I suggest you take a trip to Selhurst Park and see how life is in the real world. I am very proud of my club, are you?

Not surprised about Theo to be honest, he'll be gutted obviously, but on the up side - he has time on his side. Who knows, this may actually be a blessing in disguise for the kid.

FFS Benjii, trust you to totally ignore the brief, it's meant to have the Saints crest on it somewhere, otherwise though - perfecto...!!!

Exactly - had there been, it would probably have sounded something like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgksE6gPWPc which would have got less points than we did...!

Would you expect him to say anything else, really...? Like he is going to admit that his manager doesn't rate him and is looking for the first opportunity to offload him - I doubt it somehow. Either way - good luck to him - hope he goes on to be a big success where ever he ends up playing - he was good for us and owes us nothing.

Exactly - luckily there is very little in the way of any musical talent on show in this so called 'song contest', and therefore I don't really take too much notice - the whole thing is, as you say, a farce. I work in Germany most months and quite often talk to one of the girls in the hotel about music, and we often chat about how English / American music dominates European countries, and how crap German music is in general. Tonights result only goes to show how right I am - I'm off back over there next week - can't wait to chat to her again after this result.

Did we win...???

Ahhhh I see you are competing in my novice category as well....! Nice banner though - I like it...

Who's singing for the UK...???

Aaaaahhhh right - cheers Steve - even to the non pc literate, it maketh sence now.

I like that, but haven't you extended the boundaries there? I thought that we were limited to a 400 x 100 banner, which would sit something like this: After Minty posted the mock up, I thought that there was probably room to spare, I just wonder if there is some other reason as to whether it's usable or not.

Just read that article myself and it smacks of desperation to me.

OK, it ain't great but I'm entering the novice class: or ... still workin' on it though, and learning as I go...! BTW - thanks to B Rabbit for the layers advice. Any way of getting rid of the green and blue channels in GIMP...?? With new club crest - and that's me done for now:

Cheers CL - I actually already have GIMP installed so I may have a play around with that. My problem is that I dont understand the basics of imaging software, layers, floating layers and the like so this could be a bit of an uphill battle. Thanks for your help though.

Gotta say I like B Rabbits effort, but none of the others are that far behind either. Can anybody tell me what software you are using to produce these banners please?

Tend to agree with this. Can't for the life of me imagine why Germany did this: http://www.skysports.com/football/world-cup-2010/story/0,27032,12023_6174582,00.html prior to the WC, don't understand the benefit of it at all...??!!!

This is probably all part of the bigger picture and NC getting ready for when we are playing in the Champions League after successfully completing the clubs 5 year plan.

Burley

But that's the point I am trying to make Badger - I don't know that. Let's summise again. She may have gone onto the beach, made sure that the baby had fluids, put a sunshade over the baby, used sun lotion to protect it, covered it's head and watched him fall asleep. She may have then inadvertently fallen asleep herself and in the meantime, the sunshade has blown away, the lotion has dried up and the baby is now suffering. On the other hand we could summise that she went to the beach, laid out a towel, plonked the baby down beside her and settled down for a good 4 hour suntan session, with not a thought for the childs welfare. Yes either way she was stupid to the point of negligence, but whether she meant to harm the child - I am not in a position to say.

Robsk I think that we are probably in agreement over this - it was an awful thing to have happened. But I'm not about to pull the trigger before I am aware of the full facts. Let's summise. She fell asleep on the beach, she took drugs which comotosed her, she got drunk and flaked out, she just didn't bother to check the child, she didn't hear the child crying and assumed it was ok - all of these things are unforgivable and toutamount to child cruelty and neglect. But we don't know the facts. She may have had a medical condition, there may have been other reasons. I would agree that, on first sight, she appears unfit to be a mother - and if that is the case then I am ready to come back here and not only pull the trigger, but let her have both bloody barrels.

If that's is what it takes to stop a child being hurt in this way again then sobeit. I would prefer something that is a little less of a burden on the taxpayer but equally as effective.

There are many levels of neglect. My son broke his wrist when he was about 2 years old because my older son, whilst playing with him tried to lift him onto a settee. I was neglectful in that I should have supervised them both - effectively it was my fault that he was injured. Should my son have been removed from the family home? I am not defending what this woman has done - I am merely pointing out that she may have been too dumb to realise the ramifications of her actions.

Let me just clarify one thing - I cannot abide any form of ill treatment towards children. What this woman has done is awful, and she deserves punishment for it. But, currently, I have no facts about what actually happened, and therefore would rather reserve judgement, before handing out extreme measures. (Removing the child). I cry at the thought of baby P and others who have suffered through neglect of thier parents or guardians, and who are then betrayed by a system that doesn't have the balls to take positive action when need be. I totally abhore any form of child cruelty. All of that said, in this particular case, I find it hard to believe that the woman actually meant to harm the child. Yes she was stupid, irresponsible and negligent and deserves what comes to her - but until all of the facts have been substanciated I need to reserve judgement.