Micky

The only gap that needs filling is the void between his ears, it must be immense. The only thing that worries me is that business' might actually rely upon his 'so called' services - it is bloody scary really when you think about it.

Ummmm you could well be right - took this on the day and we do appear to have filled over half of the stadium by some way.

Is that an official figure - I thought we only had 44K tickets...??

OK, so he has embellished his CV just a little, you know we all do it - all his other crudentials are spot on you know....!

If you are left with nobody but the clowns, unfortunately you have to humour them. From a PFC POV, it is no laughing matter though.

This is critical stuff, absolutely critical.

Very sad story, hopefully no other casualties either FF's or residents. Thoughts are for the colleagues and families of those lost.

That is far to an intelligent post for me, would you care to elaborate and explain...?

Thanks for the warning....!!! That has got to be one of the worst attempts at a (so called) business web site that I have ever seen in my life. A free front end template filled with abysmal spelling, grammar and content, while perporting to represent major players in the football league. The man is a grade a moron. Did anybody read the 'marine' page - basically, 'if you want a boat, we can buy it for you', honestly, wtf...!!! I honestly believe the guy needs help - or are there really (major) companies out there who would visit his site and believe that he could help them. Please, please tell me there is nobody running a company who would even think about it - his site looks like it was thrown togeather by a kid at school during the 30 minute IT lesson. Sh it - I can't believe the cr ap on there...

Exactly - two different wars altogeather - the FI war was wagged between opposing nations armies - few civilian casulaties and the formalities of war were observed. British Paras also paid tribute (in some cases) to how well Argentinian conscripts fought. It was a war played by the rules - which recent wars have not been, hence the current debate.

VW I understand that not all nations will conduct business in line with the GC - however, believe it or not wars actually have rules for a reason. You won't find too many British military commanders who want to incur civcas - it gains nothing, and if anything becomes a burden on already stretched resources. Still unconvinced about the RPG, and even if they saw one they didn't have to engage - especially as there were civilians in the area that were not armed. All they had to do was withdraw, let the ground troops check it out and call for Air Support if they came under fire. This has nothing to do with being liberal minded - I have seen this sh it first hand in the FI, NI, the Gulf and Bosnia and believe me when kids are involved it is just the worst you can imagine. As somebody (GM I think) said earlier - in war sh it happens, and he is right - but this is not a case of accidental civcas as far as I am concerned, and the sh it didn't, in this case, need to happen.

Does this remind you of anybody...??? http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid29318049001?bctid=76091546001 ....anybody at all...??

There are some very strange people in this world.....! http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Strange-News/Dead-Body-Smugglers-Arrested-At-Liverpools-John-Lennon-Airport-Women-Seized-Before-Berlin-Flight/Article/201004115595891?lpos=Strange_News_Carousel_Region_3&lid=ARTICLE_15595891_Dead_Body_Smugglers_Arrested_At_Liverpools_John_Lennon_Airport%3A_Women_Seized_Before_Berlin_Flight whatever posesses them....???

Vicious (Sid)

The point is though TDD that if you don't identify an RPG you don't fire. From the video that I saw there were civies that posed no threat and it was very difficult to substantiate whether any of them were armed. Certainly the guy in the van appeared to being doing nothing more than trying to evacuate a wounded man - yet they fired upon them. Imagine what would have happened if a Brit or US medic suffered the same fate.... oh look, back to the GC again, but you get my point - it would be splashed all over the mainstream news. As ex and serving military people, we know that we are going to get into some sh itpits - but it is not an excuse to let the lead fly and worry about it later - even in war there are rules and responsibilities that we have to observe. Yes they were providing air cover for the ground forces, but those forces were not in the immediate vicinity, and were in no danger. From the video I have seen - this stinks bad.

I always seem to misplace mine when I go there and work on the principle that even if they look at me they are 'fair game'. Unfortunately I never carry hardware these days....!!!!

Castration - no less.

Ummmm partly agree (you obviously studied your 'Yellow Card' closely). But your reasoning doesn't allow for, if a guy comes at you with a 35mm camera you can take him out with an Apache gunship. I didn't see that bit in my 'Rules of Engagement', did you? P.S. Intersting debate, but wonder how much of it sits under the Geneva Convention - or don't we follow such guidelines anymore?

Alps is right - we could very well loose AL sooner than we think. Is it critical - errrr no.

Sorry JD - but that is way out of context. The people that came under fire were posing no significant threat to anybody. To then say that non-combatants and children are somehow implicated is laughable. How on earth is a child going to help take on an Apache gunship? I don't know about the credibility of the source, wikileaks, as up until I saw that video I had never heard of them - interesting though that the video is today featured as one of the Sky News headlines. I am a staunch defender of our Forces and their actions - however, you cannot defend the indefencible.

Loin

Absolutely abhorent video, shocking. Most current & ex forces personnel here will clearly understand the term 'reaction to effective enemy fire'. I saw no enemy fire there whatsoever, unless of course the video was subject to some clever editing - although my gut feeling is that it was not. I have served with US Forces on more than one occasion, and you do get the feeling that because of their 'civilian gun culture', and the right to bear arms, that they are very quick to use direct force. More worryingly though - when you listen to the commentary, they are very quick to absolve themselves of any blame and actually appear to enjoy the killing. Videos like this will do coalition forces little favour as well - we are all tarred with the same brush, and when kids are being seriously injured it's hard to argue any sort of positive case. Sad, very very sad.

Nick, Nick - have a word with yourself mate. Have you any idea what some of those fans had to do in order to get to Wembley - the sacrifices that they made. Some travelled far and wide, others went when finances probably said they shouldn't have, they all did their bit. Yes, there are probably a lot of JCL who went to Wembley but choose not the attend SMS - that is thier choice, but please refrain from tarring all with the same brush eh?

Why, as far as I am aware there is normally only one qualified manager looking on from each team. The remainder are purely unqualified people voiceing (what they think is) a superior opinion - therefore, no different at all. Yes you pay to watch the team, but it does not give you carte blanche to think that you know better. Could you fly the 747 better than the pilot that you paid, could you perform open heart surgery more competently than the surgeon that you hired? Sometimes it's it better to let the professionals get on with it and just sit back and enjoy.

If Alan Pardew came and told me how to do my job I'd tell him to wind his neck in and take a hike, I'd expect similar if I tried to tell him his business as well - all in all, no real harm done, a none story, mountains out of mole hills etc, etc......