moonraker

Agree about meat substitute products, they are fine and certainly help if you wish to reduce meat consumption. However you show your colours when you use the word torture in connection with meat production. I have more than a passing experience with livestock farming and have never experienced animals suffering "Torture", yes there are a tiny number of "farmers" who have been found to mistreat their livestock, these people are criminals and we have laws to deal with them. It is this kind of language that undermines a lot of the Vegan argument.

JWP and KWP immense, KWP Valery Foster excellent, everyone else very good. Proud of them today, Hoddle will be upset!

Brilliant performance by Saints, anyone who finds fault with that performance needs to ask themselves if they really support The Saints.

The yobbos are kidding the ref at every turn

Whoosh What a finish from our very own JWP

Hoddle really is a twat,

Unnecessary foul by KWP

Leicester really are an unpleasant bunch.

Liverpool 1 up against Everton, the Toffees must be shit!

We should be out of sight, apart from their single shot on goal they have offered nothing. Get more clinical and this is a thrashing. The ref ain’t to good.

Embarrassing beyond belief, that people voted for this cretin never ceases to amaze me.

Adapting, that’s an interesting justification for expecting someone to do something they would rather not do. Your vegetarian analogy is weak, vegetarianism is not generally a deeply rooted in cultural or religious tradition. I have known vegans not attend meals with colleagues because there was meet on the menu, it’s rare but I respect their choice. Based on your reasoning I suppose you believe non Muslims living and working in a Muslim society should attend the mosque with their colleagues as mosques are an important part of how they socialise.

There are many ways to integrate and socialise that don’t involve a bar. It is very simplistic to believe that if you don’t use the bar you are not making an effort. I fully recognise that for many of us meeting in a bar is a great way to get to know colleagues, team mates etc. it is not however a universal law. Why use the term asian players, i have known plenty of non Asians who choose not to socialise in bars, it’s a personal choice and one that should be respected not used to justify a criticism.

As a white Anglo Saxon you might assume my prism is wholly shaped by this. I try, sometimes unsuccessfully, to look at the world through others prisms in order to get at least a small understanding of what they experience and to help me think how I might feel in their position. As for assuming everyone is a nasty, horrible racist nothing could be further from the truth. I believe that the majority of people are decent and caring and that they aspire to do right by their fellow humans. It is only by listening to those who have experienced racist and discriminatory language and abuse that one can judge what is and isn’t racist. If ones default is to immediately take a defensive position when “potential” racism or discrimination is exposed to my mind is to be in denial, either because we do not want to believe their are a small minority of nasty horrible racists, or most worrying that the defenders are part of that minority.

I am looking forward to this game, my first trip to Carrow Road. I am quietly confident but not complacent.

Your assuming that you know the intent, he was obviously trying to make a point of some sort. Whilst such comments may seem innocuous to those who who do not experience racism, discrimination or insults on a regular basis I believe that it is for those who are impacted by such statements to judge. The whole "it is only banter" argument is predicated on how those who utter these things see it not the persons on the receiving end. Unfortunately there is rarely great outrage about these things and that is why they persist.

Have never actually lived in the City, but have been visiting all my life through strong family connections, SFC and socialising. I have been fortunate to travel to and spend time in most major UK cities or big towns. Most have something to recommend them, some more than others, a few (IMHO) have nothing to recommend them, Southampton has much to recommend it. The discussion about the location of the training ground is academic, it is where it is, that the club are committed to maintaining and improving it is all we can ask. Personally I would take the New Forest over the M3 commuter belt corridor.

The demonstrations of ineptitude by this excuse for a government continue, their U-turns more truly resemble an out of control spinning top. Senior ministers continue to contradict each other, the man calling himself the PM continues to lie, bluster and avoid anything resembling and answer to a question. The Tory cultists maladroitness continues, pathetic attempts to claim those not in government are somehow just as culpable, a bit like claiming the accident you had in your car was the fault of a previous owner.

Wiltshire born but I now live in Bath!

Swindon is definitely the nearest League Club to Trowbridge, so if proximity is the definition of home club that fits. It is also the only league club in Wiltshire of which Trowbridge is the county town.

I rest my case reference the ideologically hard wired.

For right leaning voters defending the indefensible is the norm. No matter how obvious it may be that a particular position is untenable, denial, obfuscation, lies and deflection are well practised lines. Trump and Johnson have won elections using this approach, the problem is that the electorate eventually wake up to it, unfortunately by the time they do a great deal of damage has been done. The other sad fact is those who are ideologically hard wired can never acknowledge the corruption, as if admitting a mistake is a weakness and not as it is in reality a strength.

It’s always fascinates me how certain people use “It’s Democracy” to defend positions that plainly fly in the face of common sense and good governance. There are already restrictions on who can and can’t stand for parliament and on who can vote. The self same “it’s democracy” brigade were I am sure against votes for the incarcerated, yet they remain citizens, they have a stake in the governance of the state but are denied a democratic voice. Our current system was designed for a different era, it is outdated and unfit for purpose. Yet the JRM cult continually defend an 18th century system.

I cannot buy into the Newcastle will buy themselves out of relegation argument. Assuming they are still in a relegation spot come January their transfer options will be limited. The January window is notoriously difficult, players are not out of contract, teams will only want to sell players who are not key to their season or will be out of contract at the end of the season. players in these two categories would not usually recommend themselves to a team in a relegation scrap, there have been exceptions. Further the player has to agree, I struggle to see how a player at a top European club would be willing to join a relegation threatened club, better to wait until the season is over and see where they are and then take the big pay day if they stay up. None of the top prem clubs are likely to sell anyone of note mid season, the rest of us will not sell unless it is truly silly money, and even then if they are after a key player it would be easy to delay any deal beyond the window. Newcastle’s best option is to identify experienced journeyman players who know how to manage prem games and can grind out points without setting the world alight. The problem with this strategy is you need to be set up well in advance to get the scouting right and have a manger who has the full confidence of his squad and a plan, I don’t know, but I doubt Newcastle are currently very well provided for in these areas. If they manage to get out of the relegation scrap by January they will have a few more options but that is a big if. I think it more likely Howe will fail to get them out of the scrap and he could be gone quickly. They have been a club in turmoil for some time and a sudden injection of cash does not change the culture or effectiveness within the club overnight.

The only thing missing from this performance is 3 more goals and a second yellow for the cheat.