moonraker

The EU have already dealt with the Isoglucose quotas, http://www.foodnavigator.com/Market-Trends/Isoglucose-may-take-a-third-of-EU-sugar-market. They are to support EU sugar producers, the UK being the 5th largest producer in the EU with over 3400 UK farms growing sugarbeet. How would you support our sugabeet producers?

What point are you trying to make with your obsession with unemployment in selected countries in th EU, this thread is about the UK where as a member of the EU we have high levels of employment, hence we require the current levels of immigration to fuel what was until the referendum a strong economy. National borders are not the issue as evidenced by the disparity in regional employment levels. No amount of suck it up rhetoric will alter the fact we have inflicted a massive amount of self harm.

Bottom line whatever else applied it was not a binding referendum, despite breakfast means something, with only 37 % support if it were ignored democracy would not be abused.

Will Brexiters lease please stop saying a majority of the electorate voted to leave, they did not, only 37% of the ELECTORATE voted to leave, 35% voted to stay and 28% either could not vote, chose not to vote, or don’t care. This is the main reason I continue to argue about the outcome, it is not like a General election where FPTP allows a majority Government on a minority vote, at least we get a chance to change things every 5 years, Brexit is irreversible. Farage made this self same point himself, before he knew the outcome.

It is becoming very apparent that our resident Brexiters did not do join the dots puzzles as children. They spout random "facts & figures" without any acknowledgement of the interconnectivity and interdependency of reality. The Tescos story is a simple example, unbelievably one of their claims is it will be a benefit as it will mean buying British and reducing our reliance on imports. A number of problems there; for manufactured goods we can’t produce many of the inputs required, for food British farmers rely on ‘un-skilled’ low wage foreign labour to produce food at the prices we have be come accustomed too, British ‘un-skilled’ labour will not do seasonal agricultural work at current wage levels. So joining 3 dots (an easy one this) prices will rise due to a weak pound, wages will be suppressed as producers come under pressure to keep prices down, spending on manufactured goods will reduce as the price of essentials rises. In addition our farmers and horticulturists will be unable to harvest a whole range of crops and will either stop growing or have to raise wages to attract “un-skilled” Brits an hence prices rise and imports grow.

As usual a simplistic response, its not about accepting the result, its about wanting competence in delivering Brexit, to date all we have seen and heard from this dysfunctional Government is sound bites, incompetence, u-turns and more untruths. If you put any 2 brexiters in a room they would not be able to agree on how to execute the will of the people. You may have your head in the sand but please don’t make out nothing has happened and everything is OK. If I were a leave voter I would be incensed at the lack of transparency and democratic accountability, how would I know if I am getting the Brexit I voted for? As a UK voter I have every right to ask questions of the Government on their policy for exiting the EU and I expect our elected representatives to scrutinise their policies to ensure the best outcome for the country as a whole.

My point was not about the EU but about this Tory Governments performance and attitude to the long established British Parliamentary Principle of Sovereignty. Mrs May’s failure to address the genuine and worrying concerns expressed across the political spectrum on her handling of withdrawal for the EU is real arrogance. I cannot help concluding that we continue to suffer, as a nation, because of the internal squabbles and failure of the Tories, and please, please don’t respond if all you can manage is the EU is worse, were supposed to be in control now!!

Because leavers in reality revel in denigrating the UK purely to justify their backward looking view of the world, and then they have the gall to call it patriotism.

Its not just petrol tough is it, as is so often to pointed out we import more than we export, your Tory government has been in austerity mode for 7 years, wages have been suppressed, services cut, and now we have this self inflicted Brexit uncertainty furthe erroding peoples budgets. Leaving the EU may have had some advantages but these have been flushed away by the behaviour of the Government since the vote, their performance has been farcical, no plan, demeaning of a Parliamentary democracy and arrogant in the extreme. I know you have no concern for the UK citizens living abroad, many of those rely on UK based pensions and their standard of living is dropping like a stone, they are facing uncertainty on future health care, and yet all we get from the arrogant Brexit leaders is that we have a strong hand to play, yet another falsehood amongst the many.

In other news Germany Sweden Finland Denmark........ The price of oil set by OPEC caused that nothing to do with our decision you are very good at laying all ills at the EU s door, why not try thinking a bit broader.

So the pound continues to tank! Batman will be happy. However the rising cost of imports is wiping out the benefits of our cheaper exports, petrol likely to rise 3 - 4p litre very quickly. It may just be a transitional blip, but I fear we have years of uncertainty and instability, I wonder how many leavers will be so jingoistic in 5 years time?

Agree, he comes across well.

UKIP in turmoil despite winning the referendum. Hope Stephen Wolfe is OK.

Wes you were doing quite well until this classic. It seems you haven’t realised in 2016, we live in a Globalised World, some might interpret your statement as a tad xenophobic. By the way they are a Dutch company founded over 130 years ago.

So all these rejections of “the will of the people” have resulted in what? Certainly not a game changing lurch to the right or civil disturbance in the countries mentioned, which is what the numptees on here are predicting would happen if the Government did not carry out “the will of the people”. We elect Governments to make policy based on facts and credible evidence, and to test their policies in our sovereign Parliament. As the referendum was based on myth, lies and tabloid press sensationalism, setting it aside could be easily justified by a governing party that puts the country first is not one obsessed by its internal squabbling. Referendums are a flawed and duplicitous mechanism, they are neither democratic nor defining, just divisive.

Yes but they do not have parlmentary backing, the Government is not parliament, aka they are abusing our system so beloved of you Brexiters.

Glad you are a believer in our system, the same system that means parliament is supreme and the referendum was only advisory. Therefore it should, under our system, be for parliament to decide whether they take the peoples advice, but then you knew that.

Yes we have a Tory Government and there in lies the problem, it was the inability of the Tories to have a unified position on Europe that got us into this mess. For years your dysfunctional party (as are all political parties ) has failed to sort out what it really wanted from Europe, it called a referendum out of fear of UKIP and in an attempt to silence the B**stards in the party. Well it has failed on all counts and more importantly it has failed the country. Carry on spouting your crap about non-excitant bi-lateral trade deals, and how good (not) a weak pound is, any one with who has any grasp of how the modern world works would know you are spouting drivel. If that’s arrogance so be it, its better than your drivel. OAP Tories harking back to Empire you couldn’t make it up..

Which international collaborative, consensus based institution will we be camapigning to leave next. The whole leave campaign was and is a fraud, the world is interconnected and interdependent with one possible exception no country has real control we are all subjetc to outside regulations, laws and standards.

Hooray you have got something right at last.

Apology, the ASA did not take action, it was only suggested they should, but they can't rule on political adevertising, which is shame. In spite of my error it remains a fact it was a lie, a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. All analysis of the claim has proven it to fit the definition of a lie, and all leave leaders have deistanced themselves from it since the vote. So no amount of insults or rewriting history will change it.

Rubbish, numeous interviews with leave voters demonstrated that many of them belived it, the advertsing standrads authority found against them. It is a lie worthy of Trump, an only an ideologue or an idiot would defend it, which are you?

Political campaigns are based on convicing the electorate to vote for one option or another. They have limited funds and clever people decide how best to convince the voters to vote for them, so the leave PR team decided claiming that the EU contribution would go to the NHS would sway enough voters to make it worthwhile. Whilst I agree that immigration was the number one issue, so why not use their limited funds to decorate the Boris Battle Bus with an anti-immigration message and re-enforce leaves key message?

And your point is? In 1975 reamain won with 67% of the votes cast, and polled only 320000 votes less than this years reamain vote, with a smaller population and a smaller turnout. 1975 was a far more empahtic win for remain than this years leave vote. In 1975 43% of the eleigible eletroarte voted to stay, in 2016 it was 37%. So by every measure 1975 was far more definitive than 2016. This is however academic and has no real relevence to our position today.

I know this is something of a hobbyhorse for you and they are certainly in a pickle but not exactly the same as Lehman: “Neil Wilson, a markets analyst at London-based spreadbetter ETX Capital highlighted the bank has been under pressure from aggressive short-selling, notably from some large hedge funds. This includes Soros Fund Management, the family office run by George Soros, which has built up a short position, according to a regulatory filing earlier this year. "It's not a Lehmans moment in the offing. Banks are generally better capitalized and able to cope with adverse shocks. And Deutsche's derivatives exposure can be overstated," Wilson said in a note Wednesday. "Deutsche's problem is not capitalization – it's just that its costs have soared (mainly through litigation and fines) and it's not that profitable any more." The world has changed since the banking crisis and whilst there is still risk, the commentators point about capitalisation is key. "It's not a Lehmans moment in the offing. Banks are generally better capitalized and able to cope with adverse shocks. And Deutsche's derivatives exposure can be overstated," Wilson said in a note Wednesday. "Deutsche's problem is not capitalization – it's just that its costs have soared (mainly through litigation and fines) and it's not that profitable any more." I assume such comentators are more knowledagble in this area than I.