hypochondriac

Well if it happens it will lend your argument more credibility once you've travelled out there.

Oh sure. The public will be baying for Russian blood when the missiles start blowing up British troops in Lithuania. Would you be prepared to go to the front line to defend NATO interests?

The difference is Putin can just disregard them or threaten them with prison.

The fact it hasn't been is telling in itself.

And the vast majority of the public have zero interest in some small Eastern European backwater. They just want to be left alone to eat McDonalds and browse amazon.

They've had quite a while to discuss it all but still can't come to agreement. Not a good sign.

The point is it doesn't seem like we do have a united response over Ukraine which isn't going to make Putin calculate anything other than once again displaying the West's lack of unity and division.

Given what I've posted below, doesn't seem like a good start for unity does it.

What we should do and what we will do are two different things which is my point. I'll believe it when I see it.

You've said yourself you don't think that Russia will stop at Ukraine.

How likely is that? If he ends up dying he will just be replaced by a kgb crony equally ruthless and hard nosed to keep his place at the top.

It's not just America though. Putin doesn't have the problem of having to sell to a domestic audience the loss of pote tially thousands of people over a country that most people don't care about. The west does have that problem and I can envisage significant opposition and calls for compromise to prevent war on that scale. Besides, it's most likely going to be an incremental thing anyway like I said earlier. Russia will just wait for things to die down and a bit and then keep going.

I don't think it's a small thing. I still don't think it's a reasoning that the American public will accept. I don't even think it's one we will accept here, particularly if we get mass cyber attacks or similar that shut off communications.

Not really the same thing is it. The American public won't stand for body bags coming back to America from an Eastern European country and whoever is in charge won't have the backbone to allow it. Why would they?

I am aware thanks.

So here we are then. If true then we can't even muster proper sanctions against Russia let alone start a ground war against them. The optimism from some that we are going to defend some of this Eastern European nations is misplaced in my opinion.

A lot of them disagree. There's voices on both sides but the point is it's not going to be universal opposition to Russia in Ukraine.

Yet apparently its swallowing Russian propaganda to make that argument!

I think you misunderstood my post. I think he believes what he said which is the problem.

Russia can take what they want and then just sit there as an occupying force waiting for the next opportunity to expand in a few years. A huge percentage of the country are Russian anyway so I expect from Putins point of view it's manageable.

If you want my opinion, I think that the west will slap sanctions on Russia and offer support to Ukraine but ultimately they will fall. I think Putin will then say that he's got what he wanted and he will stop there, people will move on and then in a few years time he will encroach again (by which time the West will have moved on and been distracted by other things.)

Well we will see won't we but in my opinion your desire to downplay Russia's capability and seriousness will be shown to be folly just as those who predicted that this was all a bluff have been shown up.

Quite possibly. Certainly a more realistic scenario than some on here are suggesting.

I don't see how Ukraine will be able to hold out for that long. I'm told that Russia have the largest heavy artillery and ground troops in the world and they've been planning this for a while (intelligence suggests they plan to attempt to take Kyov within days.) Much more likely imo is that Russia seize power and then look to quell unrest as soon as possible.

Piffle. I also would like him squashed and removed, my opinions are what I think the West will actually do rather than what I would like to see happen. The fact you think that I'm aping Trumps opinions speaks to your bias not mine.