hypochondriac

It could be but there isn't really any way of knowing if it is a widespread problem, short of a study which surveys footballers to investigate. I'm not sure why you have a problem with the word maybe, it just shows that when we are discussing the motivations for gay footballers we really don't know a lot so best not to jump to conclusions. I used the gay friend comment to underline the fact that context is key with 'hate crimes' so why you keep bringing it up I have no idea. Do you have a problem with people having gay friends?

Maybe they don't want time in the limelight? Maybe they want to get their affairs in order before being in the limelight in that way? We don't know.

Of course there are some gay footballers. I'm sure there are some gay footballers who would like to be open about it just as there will be some who wish to be private. At the risk of repeating myself, we don't know the reasons why though do we? I don't think we should leap to the assumption that it's because we are a homophobic society. I don't think that's true and it's just as likely to be other factors IMO.

I'm not looking for the most overt examples, I was using sadoldgit's definition and asking what examples other people had seen, particularly because some people are saying they see examples on a weekly basis. Some posters on this thread are saying that homophobia is a huge problem in Britain and all I was asking for were examples of the homophobia they see so frequently. If the answer is that homophobia is when any gay person is offended by a remark or comment then I disagree. As we already discussed, footballers may have reservations about being openly gay for a host of reasons and not necessarily anything to do with fear of abuse. It's a personal choice and they will have their own reasons.

Probably a fair comment. My main beef is with those who paint Britain as some sort of racist, homophobic and sexist hotbed when really that's not the Britain I or I suspect many others recognise.

I agree but the point is that we don't know the reasons so we shouldn't automatically assume it's because we are a country of homophobes oppressing gay footballers.

So do you see weekly instances of gay people being bullied because of their sexuality on the streets of Britain? I'm really surprised if that is the case. Your definition there I think would make it much more narrow than for example having a joke with a friend. Most people I meet tend to keep themselves to themselves and are usually just normal pleasant individuals. Even the rude idiots aren't going around bullying people for being gay.

It may well be the case that people haven't come out because they fear homophobic abuse (though I think a lot has changed in seventeen years.) I don't know but then I don't think anyone else other than the gay players know either so to say automatically it's because loads of people are homophobes and scaring them into silence is incorrect IMO.The tabloid thing you mention is a good point and my suspicion is that this is one of the main reasons why people do not want to be the first to be open about their sexuality. All the stuff about how the crowds and others would react if someone did come out as gay is just specualation and we simply don't know what the reaction would be. I strongly suspect though that the vast majority of people either wouldn't care or would be respectful. It will be interesting to see what viewpoint is proven to be right when it finally does happen.

I see you have again refused to say what weekly homophobia you see? What sort of stuff is this that you see and which you think is homophobic? I'm genuinely interested. Where in my answer above have I offered a definition of homophobia? I simply asked what YOU considered to be homophobia, I didn't give my own definition. My suspicion is that whilst we both see the extreme stuff as homophobia, it's the milder things where we would disagree and I would argue that dependent on what that milder stuff is (taking into account what I said earlier about context etc), it does not necessarily support the opinion that homophobia is running rampant through British society.

really? I'm sure I read in a few articles that instance of transgender abuse were much more prevalent in society. I could be wrong though but I have heard a number of transgender campaigners complain that they have been lumped in with everyone else and that it is a very separate and distinct problem so not comparable with gay and lesbian groups. Where did I request that you provide evidence? I simply said that it's certainly not something I have encountered and definitely not on a weekly basis. I'd be interested to know the sort of weekly encounters you have since it would help me to see what you consider homophobic. Rather like when Kelvins right glove on here was saying that Britain is a racist and sexist society, I tend to believe that the vast majority are accepting and tolerant of others and that in many cases those who truly believe we are a racist, sexist and homophobic society are the ones who go out of their way to look for these things so that they can be offended. That's not to say there are some unenlightened groups of people who may shout abuse or beat up homosexuals because of who they are attracted to and I agree that never will have any place in society. We will never have a perfect society free of all prejudice due to human nature, but we've come a long way since the seventies and particularly when you see attitudes in countries such as Russia. I believe that in the main we are a tolerant nation who are generally accepting of others.

And I don't recognise the homophobia riddled Britain that you describe. Perhaps you hang around with the wrong sort of people. I'm genuinely astounded that you see homophobia on a weekly basis and I hope you challenge it when you do come across it. What sort of homophobia do you see on a monthly basis? What UK crime survey are you referring to?

I didn't say that and you know it. Pathetic from you as usual.

​I don't think it exists to anything like the level you are trying to build it up as. For what reason I can only guess.

Nothing openly homophobic that I would consider terms of homophobic abuse no. Shouting f*cking fag at someone for example. Never seen that. Maybe you would have a lower tolerance for something you would consider homophobic? How about when I joked with my mate that his black boyfriend had blowjob lips? Homophobic?

According to some it's rife in society but if it is then it's not something I've encountered in the past decade.

How do we know there are large numbers of gay people who want to come out but don't because of the backlash? We just don't do we.

Just as in some cases the media follow what is popular, the media also set the agenda. If they decide that it's a big deal and something of interest then suddenly that's what a lot of people will believe because they listen to what the media tells them. Opposition players will be sledged relentlessly regardless of their sexuality orientation. I would be extremely surprised if large sections of support abuse a gay man for being gay just as black men no longer gets reams of abuse for being black.

Yep. The sooner the better really.

It might be because of homophobia but my opinion is that there are quite a few other reasons rather than just that. I'm not sure anyone has said that fear of homophobia may not be a reason but in my opinion - and the opinion of others - it isn't as widespread as some would have us believe.

When did you stop?

The reason could be as I mentioned earlier that they feel it's not really anyone's business and they don't want the media nonsense that will inevitably follow. So nothing to do with homophobia in that case.

Why is anyone bothered? If they want to be openly gay then good for them. If they want to keep things as they are at the moment then that's OK too. It's none of my business and nor should it be.

How do you know what that reason is? Why are you talking on behalf of gay footballers?

That isn't true. The fact that no player is "out" could be for any number of reasons and doesn't necessarily indicate a problem. Maybe they just feel it isn't anyone else business and they don't want to have a big media sing and dance about it so choose to stay quiet. Fair enough.

Just watched the Simpson where Nelson Muntz said to Milhouse that the giant pumpkin was really gay. Homophobic???