derry

May's problem may be backing remain, keeping her head down, being Home Secretary for six years as immigration went out of control, doing a U-turn over Europe in less than six months, and especially needing a euro-sceptic majority of party members to vote for her. In the end it may well be the grassroots Tories opt for a Leave supporter.

Listening to all the claims from the EU that the only difference with any deal will be take it or leave it and have no membership but all the things we voted against. My view is now that it would be a waste of time even negotiating with the EU. Activate article 50 and just leave after two years and manage the consequences. With nearly £100B annual trade deficit with the EU the UK is in a strong position. We don't trade, they don't trade. We pay tariffs, they pay tariffs. Playing hardball got them into this mess.

Enlighten me. How could you know what tariffs if any there would be in 2018 and beyond.

If we don't agree a deal with the EU we are out two years after triggering Article 50 with no strings attached but still free to trade with anybody and free to deny entry to anybody. Probably the best way to go. A complete break. If Germany want to sell to us they will and vice versa. Tariffs if necessary. The EU I believe has no trade deal with the US, India, China but it doesn't stop trade. And they don't pay the EU or have free movement. The EU sells more to us than we do to them.

It's not. A complete UK negotiation with an Australian style points system.

I wouldn't have promised a referendum in the first place even if I thought I'd never have to deliver because my mate Nick wouldn't let me. Look how that worked out. If the ramifications were as put forward by the Remain campaign why on earth would they have a referendum.

She may well have shot herself in the foot with her gobby behaviour at Wembley. If there is a Leave PM she has no chance unless she delivers Westminster seats in Scotland.

The N I Republicans would buy your idea, would the Unionists?. The Republic may run a mile at the idea unless the EU threw a lot of money at them. Why would they want to absorb two basket cases.

I didn't realise that Scotland had it's own EU referendum. Scotland took part in a UK referendum. They demonstrated their self interest by voting in their own referendum to be part of the UK. The English contributions were too difficult to give up. I wonder how many Scots elsewhere in the UK voted and for what. Sturgeon is just stirring it up. 3.8m registered, 1.6m voted remain. The SNP is a minority party in Scotland albeit the largest.

Posted earlier Ron.

Getting ready for government:lol: And they criticise the Conservatives.

Only the usual minority, the rest of us have lives to get on with.

I know it takes a lot to get used to after three months of cocksure arrogance that the remain result was in the bag, it is going to happen. The referendum result will stand and the UK will leave the EU, but it will be the Leave politicians that will do the negotiations. There is no way that the remain supporters could be allowed to negotiate especially with Cameron's feeble effort as an example. In the end after two years if there is still no agreement we are out anyway.

Sturgeon is chief minister by consensus as leader of a minority party as there is no party with a majority, The Scottish Parliament doesn't have the power to veto. It has devolved powers from the UK parliament which I suppose could be withdrawn and power returned to Westminster as happened with NI in the past. I suspect the Leave politicians are having a weekend off for a change. I think Labour have their own problems and the Conservatives are busily plotting to put forward a bunch of no hopers to be weeded out. I think Cameron jumped before he was pushed, he missed many tricks but he could see the writing on the wall. As for Ruth Davison as leader, don't make me laugh.

Get used to it folks we are coming out. If the politicians attempt to get out of implementing the result of the referendum it will destroy the Labour and Conservative parties and most of the MPs will lose their seats. There will be a constitutional crisis and Labour and Conservative will lose the best part of 13m votes enough to royally screw them and turn UKIP into the biggest party. Cameron is irrelevant and much as the left would like it to be a problem it will make no difference. Leave means Leave, all the mealy mouthed non acceptance that Leave was the result is just the inability of the self important so called intelligent people to accept the result. A vote the other way would have been presented as a clear mandate by the left and in this they would be right.

Probably a lot easier to deal with than either.

If the remain supporters really want a target there are several, Cameron and Osborn who didn't have the balls to go head to head with the EU and look for a real deal not a sham. 2017 was the deadline for a referendum so there was plenty of time. Merkel and her EU colleagues who didn't have the wit to realise that there was a problem and would have been much better advised to come to a decent compromise over what would have been much required reform in any case, to allow Cameron to sell the EU reform as genuine rather than a transparent PR con that fooled nobody. In both cases their arrogance and lack of connection with the people led to this. As for why didn't the 13m not vote, probably because most of them couldn't be bothered as they really didn't give a flying **** about remain or leave.

Remind me, how long is the queue. At the last count it was the EU with the TTIP. some queue.

I received an email today from my sister who moved to Ireland about five years ago. the Irish government were campaigning for those with votes to support remain. In April my sister told me she wouldn't vote as she felt that it was inappropriate as she was living abroad. Today she told me after the Irish Government intervened she registered and voted leave. She felt it was none of the government's business to interfere and I suspect many others felt the same way. Another shot in the foot, just one of many. Small wonder their arrogance lost the referendum.

Cutting to the chase, whilst those on here endlessly spent time researching and debating politely yet never agreeing, the Remain campaign was a nasty fear laden make it up as we go along, to frighten the people that dare to oppose them into voting to stay. Cameron and Osborn along with the gobby women on tv did as much to ensure the opposite result. Most of the older people had lived through and experienced recession, war etc and those pillocks didn't realise that the ethnic British people were the same sort of people that faced down Germany in two world wars and felt deeply about their country. So much so that seeing the manufactured foreign influences invited by Cameron to comment on his side together with the interminable talking down of the country by the liberal left of both parties gave them the determination to do something about it. 13m didn't vote. I told of the university room cleanout after the students had left which were littered with polling cards and postal vote papers never to be used. If the remain campaign had ended up 52% to 48% there would have been no whingeing or accusations from them about democratically remaining in the EU. That is why it's inappropriate having lost, to whinge about democracy. Get used to it, we are coming out.

Well I happen to be completely independent of the state and pay a fortune in tax every month so I pay for the privilege of having an opinion. I've had a proper Irish passport since 1963, dual nationality, English father, Irish mother and born in the old Irish Free State. I have an English passport again since the sixties and despise the EU and everything the twisted self serving monolith stands for. I do hope that we have had some small part in its eventual collapse.

Obviously no problem taking the English subsidies. If NI wants to go, go. SF talking about a United Ireland maybe that's the way to go.

The bubble got it wrong. If the EU want to make it difficult we need to learn to play hardball. If they don't want to export to us good luck with that. 13m didn't even bother to vote. 1.3m didn't vote in Scotland. If Scotland want out, thanks, we'll have our subsidies back where they belong, and good luck with that. Nobody from the government remain campaign should be allowed anywhere near the exit talks. Theresa May the useless Home Secretary who put her career first should hang her head in shame and disappear but she won't. Totally unsuitable to lead the country out of the EU.

Or not bother. My son called in at 0730 this morning on his way to work, I handed him his polling card and told him to vote on his way. He decided out though he works for Mercedes, but wasn't bothering. I told him I was on my way there now and I'd check he had voted. He had.

Presuming that the government chose to use a veto which looks as though it's not their intention. However public opinion might well turn that on it's head. If we are out the EU may well have it's own problems.