austsaint

You're right, there's little or no fight, intent or penetration - yet, it's not a recent thing is it?. The wimpy, crab football has been a feature of Saints play for ages. If you watched a replay of every games since January last year, it's what you'd see, give or take the occasional performance. The main architect of the crab football is JWP; Bednarek an able deputy. Take out Lavia and KWP from that side today and there is very little class, creativity, speed or flair - perhaps the raw pace and dribbling of Sulemana. Today also highlighted the folly of the non-replacement of Ings - bad enough to have tried to make do with an Adams up front on his own; an out-of-his-depth A. Armstrong; a tyro like Mara or a lumbering Onuacho for so long but to start today without any form of striker seemed to sum up the decline and fall of the Club.

I wish you were the Manager. Something like that line up is what we needed v West Ham. All confidence in Selles is gone - but he must now show a bit of adventure and bravery with his team selection.

That's my main reflection on the game. Why did Selles start with Elyounoussi (again). It set the tone for a cautious, mostly inept display with little threat to the West Ham goal in a game we had to win. It left us with only Walker-Peters and Lavia to show/initiate any form of creativity, progressive run or passing. Why didn't he start with the likes of Sulemana and Alcaraz to try and take the game to WH? It looked like we were aiming for a 0-0. Not good enough Mr Selles - you lacked the courage and insight to start a team capable of taking it to their opponent in such a crucial game.

A-maized if we win against the grain.

I see young Lavia came on (for Belgium) at the 80 minute mark v Germany. He really is on his way, isn't he. In more ways than one!

So you think we'll keep ABK, Alcaraz and Sulemana if relegated ? Hope you're right, but I'd be surprised.

I take your point about continuity, system and tactics. However, I think Selles has erred by re-instating Bednarek, even if he hasn't done badly. Over a long period of time, he (Bednarek) has been part of the problem we've had at CB. There was a good reason he was loaned to Villa, and a reason he hardly featured. On the other hand Salisu has (after a slow start) shown himself to be genuine Prem level - it hasn't helped this season that he has often been asked to play LB and suffered an injury or two, but, over a period of time, he's shown strength, speed, aerial skill and defensive qualities. Salisu and ABK have worked as a pairing and in my mind if they had both been fit and available, would have been the best pairing with two specialist full backs, especially from the point of the Jones "tenure" where the spectre of relegation threat became so alarming. DCC is an odd case - prior to the sending off (was it the Newcastle Cup first leg?) he had showed himself to be a calm, composed, tight marking player, good in the air and with an eye for a pass. His red card looked to be a case of "taking one for the team" - yet, subsequently, he's been out of favour, notwithstanding the reported dust up with Jones - the narrative seems to have marked him down as one of our three best CBs which is how I've rated him, behind ABK and Salisu. A good indicator of the worth of our four CBs (excluding Lyanco) is what they are likely to fetch in a transfer window - I'm fairly confident ABK and Salisu would/will command a lot of interest and attract healthy fees (despite MS' contract situation), DCC more than likely the third most valuable asset to the market and then Bednarek. So, despite Selles having done well since taking over, I believe he has made a mistake in sticking with Bednarek, just as he has made a mistake in maintaining Elyounoussi as a regular starter. For all that, if Selles can mastermind the slim chance of survival he'll be a Club hero and his selections, systems, tactics and pairings will be acclaimed as brave and correct. Let's hope it happens!

Why are you dreading a possible Salisu and DCC combination, if that's who line up. Both very good CBs.

That was my reaction too. Diallo wasn’t too bad but surely in such a crucial, winnable game Lavia should have started. Predictably, Elyounoussi was not so much awful as anaemic, barely there… he just wasn’t involved in any facet of play which put an extra burden of responsibility on to KWP. Seles got that wrong. By the time he corrected his mistake, an hour of the game was gone; we were one down and Brentford sat deeper happy to defend their advantage in the wet conditions. Hard to see a way back now. Thought our best tonight were ABK, Perraud and Sulemana.

For fucks sake Reuben, get Elyounoussi off. He is of no help defensively or in attack and is making KWP’s role impossible. While you’re at it bring Lavia on… there’s no tomorrow, we have to get something here… he’s our best player.

While not man of the match, one thing Armstrong did do was show Selles that he, not Elyounoussi, is the player to trust in that advanced midfield role. Added to the attack and tracked back well defensively. Without doubt the best 0-0 draw I've seen in ages. Not a bad Southampton player but Lavia, both WP's, both CBs, Perraud, Bazunu and Stuart Armstrong all good. Lavia, Ward-Prowse, KWP and Bella-Kotchup outstanding.

I thought he'd be more likely to jog up there!

I'm the same. I'd replace Bednarek (not that he's been terrible) with Salisu, pacier, stronger, better in the air, and usually shows up in shop window games. I just don't want Elyounoussi to have any role, even if Alcaraz is out. I'd also prefer Walcott off the bench and start Stu.

And no doubt we'll all turn up again- just in case!🤔

It was the poor passing and turnovers which seemed to let Alcaraz down tonight. I thought Lavia was one of the few to stand out.

They really kept up with the Joneses tonight.

I was very surprised at just how bad Alcaraz was tonight, expected better! I'm afraid there's a solid body of evidence stacking up against Orsic too.

Rock bottom reached?

Yep. Lavia was good of course too. Been very disappointed with Alcaraz tonight.

Quite a stunning player. By contrast Alcaraz has been sloppy with his touch and passing.

You know in all of the talk about players like Elyounoussi, the weaknesses of our squad, the fragile spine, the players we haven't adequately replaced - Ings being the most recent. Makes you realise how much we have missed Adam Lallana. What a difference a player like him would make in a front four or slightly advanced of Lavia and JWP. We haven't really had a creative attacking midfielder (like him) since he defected - although Lavia could easily play that role it's just that he's desperately needed elsewhere!

With the lid up or down?

Yes, we may not have a "best 11", but we had a "better 11" available than started yesterday given the high stakes resting on the result. It showed that the principle of not changing a winning side was questionable. Things went our way at Chelsea; we had big slices of luck, our Captain plucked a worldy goal. We needed a brave team selection with the best chance of scoring goals - that meant a RB like Walker-Peters, not AMN. It meant a more mobile attacking midfielder/wide player like Alcaraz, Adam Armstrong, even Edozie not Elyounoussi, and it meant a CB combination selected from our best CBs, which doesn't include Bednarek. That would have been a better 11 - maybe not our best. The end result was a limp, passive defeat in a style we have witnessed often before.

You make a good point. Much of the 78 minutes leading up to the goal was uncomfortable viewing with Leeds having many attacking entries, pressing hard and dominating possession - you never had the feeling we were going to do any better than a 0-0 and the 0-1 result always looked on. Yes, perhaps Bazunu could have done better with the goal - he was obscured by Bednarek - yet their goal looked likely at any time, by contrast we produced very little. It didn't help that three of the starting attacking players - Sulemana, Armstrong and Onuachu - all had quiet games and Elyounoussi did what Elyounoussi does; nothing in attack and much less off the ball and defensively than would justify his place. That left us with Ward-Prowse and Lavia, both of whom were magnificent to hold the midfield and initiate some attacking threat. Hard to criticise Selles but perhaps in a must win game a roll of the dice with players like Edozie and Alcaraz....even Djenepo playing some part might have sparked some attacking threat that was never mustered. Maybe KWP wasn't fit enough to start but him starting at RB (or even LB) would have provided the chance for getting forward on the flanks which rarely happened. A deflating result - and performance, because we never really landed a glove on Leeds in such an important game.

Looks like a good appointment. He's obviously trusted and respected by Selles. The whole coaching set up on Saturday just looked superior and calmer than the Jones clan which looked panicky and distinctly like they were winging it.