Over land and sea

I see that the first team profiles have been updated with the new numbers, albeit Smallbone, Vokins, Danso and Hesketh are missing. And the U23s/U18s are still showing last season's photos (and last season's players in some cases!). Perhaps they're waiting for the new shirts to arrive before they update.

Yes, Marcus Barnes (number 65 last year) is the only omission from the over 21s (other than the players out on season loans). If Saints follow previous seasons' practice, there will be a longer list submitted to the PL to cover Checkatrade Trophy games (are they still the sponsors?) so Barnes may be in that. Or perhaps he's got a loan lined up, which would solve the 25 man squad dilemma as we currently have 26 players aged over 21 (not including Sims who may return in January). That longer list will be published on the PL website, probably this weekend - along with the 25 man squads.

Well Armstrong and Elyounoussi were part of the 29 June announcement but yes things could obviously change and the earlier the OS announces the numbers the more that are likely to change. But the same could happen this year. The PL will presumably announce numbers on say Friday or Saturday of this week and over the days or weeks after that we could loan players out or even sell them. What the PL site will give us is the full set of numbers for Checkatrade Trophy purposes. The OS never announce those.

True although the OS had already announced the first team numbers on 29 June. That hasn’t happened this year yet.

I would imagine on Friday after the transfer window has closed. Only three PL clubs have announced their numbers so far so it looks like clubs are waiting to see exactly who they have before finalising numbers. One of the main drivers for announcing them early is that fans get on and buy shirts based on the new season’s numbers. That driver doesn’t exist for Saints this year!

Lewis is over 21 but Djenepo has one more season as an U21

But who is the second sub (who I assume to be a keeper)?

Yes, it seems to be the same players with the same squad numbers as before the photos were changed except that Jones (season loan), Johnson and Barnes are not now listed in the first team list - perhaps an indication they may be going out on loan? What the OS has still not done is move any players between groups e.g. U23s who have joined the first team or U18s who have been promoted to the U23s. The new scholars are still to be listed. In fact the U23 and U18 lists are all over the place. All the players who were released this summer (e.g. Davis, Rowthorn, Afolabi, Mdlalose, Bradley-Green, Fleary, Bartlett) are all still listed. So is Parkes who we sold in January! The OS profiles always deal with loaned players pretty randomly - sometimes they retain their profile, other times not.

Reinforced by the fact that whie Cédric, Hoedt, Boufal and Reed were all added back to the OS first team profiles yesterday, Carillo (along with McQueen and Hesketh) was not. Lemina and Austin were already there, of course. Boufal added in under his old squad number of 19 and Reed (who was 19 last season before he left on loan) at 20 - at least for now.

Still no news on the OS about the players being released. I know they can't tell us anything we don't already know and it's not the biggest news but given some of the rubbish they cover over the summer when there is nothing to report I'd have thought it was worthy of mention as not everyone will have seen the PL website. The news also makes the OS profiles even more out of date, with a number of loan returnees to add back in. Adam Parkes was sold in January and is still listed!

Both Jones and Lewis qualify as over 21s for the coming season

I have updated the opening post. For the record, here are the complete lists from the PL website Southampton RETAINED Contracts Alves Soares, Cedric Ricardo Armstrong, Stuart Austin, Charlie Barnes, Marcus Thomas Bednarek, Jan Bertrand, Ryan Boufal, Sofiane Brennan, Sean Anthony Bycroft, Jack Thomas Carrillo, Guido Marcelo Clasie, Jordy Cull, Alexander El Younossi, Mohamed Ferry, William Forster, Fraser Gerard Freeman, Kieran (offer) Gallagher, Samuel James Gunn, Angus Fraser James Hale, Harlem Hamblin, Harry Mark Hansen, Kornelius Normann Hesketh, Jake Alexander Hoedt, Wesley Hojbjerg, Pierre Emile Kordt Johnson, Tyreke Martin Jones, Alfie Klarer, Christoph Kozak, Simon Kpohomouh, Pascal Latham, Kingsley Finn Ledwidge, Kameron Malcolm Lemina, Mario Rene Junior Lewis, Harry Charles John Long, Shane Patrick McCarthy, Alex Simon McQueen, Samuel James Nlundulu, Dan (offer) O'Connor, Thomas James O'Driscoll Aaron Obafemi, Michael Oluwadurotimi Ramsay, Kayne Redmond, Nathan Daniel Jerome Reed, Harrison James Robise, Enzo Rose, Jack Joseph Sims, Joshua Samuel Slattery, Callum Smallbone, William Anthony Patrick Stephens, Jack Targett, Matthew Robert Tchaptchet, Wandja Allan Tella, Nathan (offer) Valery, Yan Vestergaard, Jannik Vidal, Oriol Romeu Vokins, Jake Ward-Prowse, James Michael Edward Yoshida, Maya Scholars Agbontohoma, David Osaretim Bartlett, Daniel Grahame (released) Braithwaite, Benjamin Smales Burnett, Ethan Darren Cluett, Ryan Davis, Harrison (released) Defise, Lucas Nsiona K Fleary, Taymar (released) Glean, Rio Kamil Idowu, Roland Jankewitz, Alexandre Tounde Dimitri Keogh, Seamas Morris, James William Norton, Christian Anthony (offer contract) Olufunwa, Oludare Samuel Araba (offer contract) Saunders, Michael Watts, Caleb Cassius Watts, Callum Neil RELEASED (in addition to the scholars highlighted above): Afolabi, Jonathan Bradley Green, Jamie Davis, Steven Flannigan, Jake Mdlalose, Siphesihle Thembinkosi Rowthorn, Ben John

No - Reed is not out of contract.

The deadline for submitting retained lists to the Premier League is today (third Saturday in May), unless a club is involved in the FA Cup, Champions League or Europa League. That doesn't mean the list needs to be made public yet. The PL will publish all retained lists on its website by the second Saturday in June. Last year we announced our list on the OS at the end of May. So far we know that Harrison Davis (from his Twitter) and Steven Davis (signed by Rangers) are definitely being released. There are quite a few others out of contract (see opening post).

Very sad. A very solid centre back and had two spells with us, which is rare. Another defender lost to an early death. I've been supporting Saints since 1971 and I can think of 6 centre backs and 2 full backs who I have seen play for us who are now dead and 5 covering all other positions. Not a scientific study - and anyway I may have missed some. RIP Jon (and all the others).

Others still playing include Stekelenburg Martina Dale Stephens Cork Surman Antonio Steven Davis Gabbiadini Guly do Prado Pelle? Not suggesting they would challenge the first team

EDIT - just seen previous reply. But here is the detail of the rule from the PL website (at the bottom of the latest squad listings) What is a Home-Grown Player? A "Home-Grown Player" means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21). Davis was born in 1985 and joined Aston Villa in 2002. Long was born in January 97 and joined Reading in 2005 - aged 18.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1034294 PDF version https://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/premierleague/document/2019/02/01/7ceeb553-db6e-4379-9a65-311b96604a3c/Premier-League-Squad-Lists-February-2019.pdf 25 man squads confirmed on PL website. We have named a 23 man squad - McQueen must be formally on Middlesbrough's books even though it was reported he was back in Southampton receiving treatment as he's omitted. Other than that exactly as expected. Barnes and Flannigan come into the over 25 list with Gabbiaddini, Davis, Cedric, Hoedt omitted compared with August. Alex Jankewitz has replaced Adam Parkes compared with the August U21 list. 25 Squad players (*Home grown) Armstrong, Stuart Austin, Charlie* Barnes, Marcus Thomas* Bednarek, Jan Bertrand, Ryan* El Younossi, Mohamed Flannigan, Jake* Forster, Fraser Gerard* Gallagher, Samuel James* Gunn, Angus Fraser James* Hojbjerg, Pierre Emile Kordt Ings, Daniel William John* Lemina, Mario Rene Junior Long, Shane Patrick* McCarthy, Alex Simon* Redmond, Nathan Daniel Jerome* Rose, Jack Joseph* Stephens, Jack* Targett, Matthew Robert* Vestergaard, Jannik Vidal, Oriol Romeu Ward-Prowse, James Michael Edward* Yoshida, Maya U21 players (Contracts and Scholars) Afolabi, Jonathan Agbontohoma, David Osaretim Bartlett, Daniel Grahame Bradley Green, Jamie Braithwaite, Benjamin Smales Brennan, Sean Anthony Burnett, Ethan Darren Bycroft, Jack Thomas Cluett, Ryan Cull, Alexander Davis, Harrison Defise, Lucas Nsiona K Ferry, William Fleary, Taymar Freeman, Kieran Glean, Rio Kamil Hale, Harlem Hamblin, Harry Mark Hansen, Kornelius Normann Idowu, Roland Jankewitz, Alexandre Tounde Dimitri Johnson, Tyreke Martin Jones, Alfie Keogh, Seamas Klarer, Christoph Kozak, Simon Kpohomouh, Pascal Latham, Kingsley Finn Ledwidge, Kameron Malcolm Lewis, Harry Charles John Mdlalose, Siphesihle Thembinkosi Morris, James William Nlundulu, Dan Norton, Christian Anthony Obafemi, Michael Oluwadurotimi O'Connor, Thomas James O'Driscoll, Aaron Olufunwa, Oludare Samuel Araba Ramsay, Kayne Robise, Enzo Rowthorn, Ben John Saunders, Michael Sims, Joshua Samuel Slattery, Callum Smallbone, William Anthony Patrick Tchaptchet, Wandja Allan Tella, Nathan Valery, Yan Vokins, Jake Watts, Caleb Cassius Watts, Callum Neil 74 players in total (23+51). Omitted - over 21s who are out on loan (the four U21s who are out on loan are listed in the U21 list: Rowthorn, Latham, Mdlalose, Davis) Alves Soares, Cedric Ricardo Hoedt, Wesley Davis, Steven* Carrillo, Guido Marcelo Boufal, Sofiane Clasie, Jordy Reed, Harrison James* Hesketh, Jake Alexander* McQueen, Samuel James*

So just updating my post above - the current 25 man squad: 1. Alex McCarthy 2. Matt Targett 3. Maya Yoshida 4. Jannik Vestergaard 5. Jack Stephens 6. Jan Bednarek 7. Shane Long 8. Pierre Højbjerg 9. Danny Ings 10. Charlie Austin 11. Mohamed Elyounoussi 12. Sam McQueen 13. Angus Gunn 14. Oriol Romeu 15. Sam Gallagher 16. James Ward-Prowse 17. Stuart Armstrong 18. Mario Lemina 19. Marcus Barnes 20. Jack Rose 21. Ryan Bertrand 22. Nathan Redmond 23. Fraser Forster 24. Jake Flannigan Players aged over 21 on loans until end of 18-19 season Jordy Classie - Feyenoord Guido Carrillo - CD Leganés Sofiane Boufal - Celto Vigo Harrison Reed - Blackburn Steven Davis - Rangers Cédric Soares - Inter Milan Wesley Hoedt - Celto Vigo Jake Hesketh - MK Dons A number of first team or first team fringe players still qualify as U21 this season, including: Valery, Ramsay, Jones, Sims, Lewis, Johnson, Obafemi, Slattery Looking ahead to next season, Sims, Jones and Lewis no longer qualify as U21 so if you add them to the loaned out players, injured players and current over 21s that’s a total of 35 players, only two of whom are out of contract this summer (Davis, Flannigan).

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/burton/burton-albion-manchester-city-hesketh-2406541.amp Hesketh would need to rejoin Burton to play in the second leg. Both Jakes are back with Saints after their loans expired with Hesketh’s recovery from injury being monitored by Burton

Looking ahead to next season and Sims, Jones and Lewis no longer qualify as U21 so if you add them to the loaned out players, injured players and current over 21s that’s a total of 36 players, only threee of whom are out of contract this summer (Davis, Flannigan and Seager). So the problem doesn’t get any easier. Of course, if we’re relegated the issue doesn’t arise but we’d need to offload players for other reasons.

I understand that Ryan Seager is also heading back early from loan. https://www.haarlemsdagblad.nl/cnt/dmf20190108_70823567/ryan-seager-weg-bij-telstar?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic Despte Steve Davis' departure we are now back with the same probem we had in August with more than 25 players that qualify as over 21. So I'd expect at least two more out - more if we plan on signing anyone. 1. Alex McCarthy 2. Cédric Soares 3. Maya Yoshida 4. Jannik Vestergaard 5. Jack Stephens 6. Wesley Hoedt 7. Shane Long 8. Matt Targett 9. Danny Ings 10. Charlie Austin 11. Mohamed Elyounoussi 12. Jan Bednarek 13. Angus Gunn 14. Oriol Romeu 15. Sam Gallagher 16. James Ward-Prowse 17. Stuart Armstrong 18. Mario Lemina 19. Marcus Barnes 20. Manolo Gabbiadini 21. Ryan Bertrand 22. Nathan Redmond 23. Pierre Højbjerg 24. Fraser Forster 25. Jack Rose 26. Ryan Seager 27. Jake Hesketh Injured - out for rest of season? 28. Jake Flannigan 29. Sam McQueen Players aged over 21 on loans until end of 18-19 season Jordy Classie - Feyenoord Guido Carrillo - CD Leganés Sofiane Boufal - Celto Vigo Harrison Reed - Blackburn Steven Davis - Rangers A number of first team or first team fringe players still qualify as U21 this season, including: Valery, Ramsay, Jones, Sims, Lewis, Johnson, Obafemi, Slattery

Opening post updated with Vokins and Ramsay’s contracts. Vokins new contract is described as a 2 year extension until June 2021. Given his previous contract ran until 2020 that’s either bad maths or inaccurate journalism

Isn’t it limited to U21s for PL teams (presumably with an option for a limited number of overage players)?

He should be shown as home grown, yes. Looks like a typo. I've amended the list above even though it is a direct cut and paste from the PL website. Also "Braithwaite, Benjamin Smales" is listed in the U21s - I think that should be Smales-Braithwaite, Benjamin