SaintRobbie

Wonder if they're still using the eye gym?

'Southampton Leisure Holdings plc's principal activities are the operation of a professional Football Club, property development and investment.' mmmmmmm... interesting bit that don't you think? Not noticed that description of the plc before.

I'd have liked that. He scores hatricks at St Mary's sometimes does Dexter! I think he's better tham DMG and Euell if I am honest.

Have they ever formerly stated as a group of shareholders that we are FOR SALE? No. That rhetoric is meaningless when you look at the evidence such as the SISU deal. The thing that is the real question is why haven't we? 'Why?' as it implies shareholders have something to gain by not selling, and indeed turned down the SISU deal. Either those in our plc boardroom are still fighting for control or they have another motive in keeping hold of their dwindling assets...consolidation upon administration perhaps? Either way it is not good enough. We need an unambiguous statement (a la Pompey) that says WE ARE FOR SALE before I will believe we actually are prepared to look at offers.

I dunno if he does. I dont think Lowe sees this investment as anything other than an ego-trip, personal challenge. He inherited his position, he has wealth enough elsewhere to live well, he has no need for Saints other than personal pride... and that is what is dangerous.

12p and falling.

I share your feeling. Can see it now can't you ... the script is almost written for the final day. Sent down by Dexter?

True - although they inherit the mortgage too. But, it is peanuts for a club with such potential. But we're not on the market. Why is that? It certainly isnt in the interests of the club.

Not what I've been saying at all - again read the whole. I agree with your sentiments completely. I have been saying that a continuous drain has occured mostly due to poor decision-making , which comes from the members of the plc boardroom and time's up...or it should be. Every club has suffered but not every club is heading for League 2 and Administration. Yes - accept your point on Manure, but it is not the fact that it is a plc it is the fact that those running it have pulled in the right direction for the good of the CLUB... we don't have that, and unless we can generate it never will. Read what I am really saying. Look bigger picture and the whole - picking at the detail of examples is as easily replied to with yet more picking at detail CB - I am making big picture points.

Anyway - got to go... super debate, thanks everyone. Apologies if I have been direct with some, I dont mean to be... just reasoned this one through now for many years, whilst caring passionately about the pride of Southampton.

I think you make some good points there Jay. The plc CONTRIBUTED to giving us one of our most valuable and saleable commodities - INFRASTRUCTURE. It has served that purpose (wasnt the sole contributor to infrastructure development mind but a very useful one). But, fails to serve any other, except stoke up division at every level and dilute effort from the footballing side. As I say - we must examine the honorable motivation of those at Sheffield Utd who on taking personal losses from shareholdings, have made a sacrifice that has removed the noose you refer to from their necks. It is time to change. And with the removal of the plc we remove those who have led us into this position too. It's time. Enough is enough. Football first please.

I agree completely with that Sid. But it frustrates me that firstly we havent even declared the Club as for sale (as our boardmembers and shareholders continue to consolidate their positions in a long game yet to be fully played out - they still selfishly seek power and influence and the pettiness of their rhetoric is so embarrassing, 'Its all Crouch's fault..' etc etc). If we declared ourselves for sale we could at least make some knights look. If we got off our arses thereafter and visited the knights and sold the Club for what it can be, they might even take us seriously. What are we currently doing? Consolidating on failure after failure. Can't we at least try? Can't we at least go and attempt to FIND a buyer? I know Lowe doesnt attract investment - Mary Corbett has told us of at least one example recently of this - but we simply have to find a new direction, with new leadership with SFC in their hearts as well as their minds. That would give us unity.

So what are you saying? Mismanagement is irrelevant? I kind of agree with your sentiment, but there are degrees of having little money and there are decisions made over where to channel money. It is those decisions and their decision-makers I have issues with. Crouch's attempt to go to Football First nearly paid off - we nearly promoted back to the Premiership, but we are suffering now because of it. But at least it was a decision based on passion for success instead of consolidation to create a profitable plc. There is a big issue here, one I have been warning and going on about for many years on this forum and it predecessor. Unless you have the right people, pulling in the same direction managing Saints as a plc it is nothing but destructive for any football club. Sheffield Utd realised that and delisted it. 60-90% of our problems relate to our plc status IMHO, the remainder are due to bad managerial appointments. I am genuinely getting sick of predicting the next rung down on the ladder of erosion this club has faced year in and year out. Genuinely bored of telling everyone why and where will be be season after season and then genuinely frustrated at being proven correct... I mean it... I am genuinely frustrated at being shown to be right... this year more than ever. The only hope of rebuilding the club is to remove the shareholders, boardroom that supports the plc and the plc and find a buyer OR a consortium of shareholders prepared to pull in the same direction - FOR THE BENEFIT OF SFC and not themselves. No chance at the moment. No chance unless we sell the club and bring in new strategic leadership. The plc has destroyed the club, it has divided, it has stripped it bare financially through mismangement and on a lesser scale dividend and baordmember payments. All decisions currently being made are with regards to the plc's survival, not for the benefit of SFC. This is what frustrates me and always has. When I examined Sheffield Utd's recent delisting and their motives for doing so, I saw hope and realised that boardmembers who were true supporters had realised that running a club as a plc was no in the benefits of the club. But we continue to try and make a failed project work, continue to flog the dieing horse and continue to apoint a chairman who has failed to make it work. It kills optimism, kills success, kills investment, kills support, reduces finances and drives us down further. One day I hope we follow Sheffield Utd's example - you know the club pushing for a play off place and getting stronger. The club that wear red and white stripes and invest directly into those shirts and not into a business distraction. A club searching for success not consolidation. A club with footballing not business ambition. But not my club.

Rubbish Weston absolute rubbish. Firstly SFC doesnt exist except in a badge and a strip and in our hearts. We are Southampton Leisure Holdings plc. That is the issue being discussed - it is the plc that is near bankruptcy and has been continually mismanaged. So don't give me that rubbish - I always have examined Saints holistically. Blinkered? Maybe - but based on careful study of the situation at this club for many years now. I am clever enough to see big picture rights and wrongs. So dont try and belittle my opinion. I am far from niave Weston, far from niave. The simple point I am making is that since the plc has been in being we have gradually been eroded in terms of success and financially. The minor addition financially of the sickener of watching dividends being paid that could be invested into our club for success and players is on a par with watching bankers receive millions in dividends for creating the credit crunch... small in percentage terms, but significant in principle. The WHOLE thus adds up to incompetent boardroom management, none of whom have everything committed to Saints but a vast array of business interests that mean they will live out their lives well whilst Saints continue to slide. The WHOLE picture involves bad decision-making, greed, self-interest and is why we need to remove this system of running the club (as per Sheffield Utd), sell it and move on AS SOUTHAMPTON FC again. It (the plc) will never be successful unless the right people run it - we have never had the right people running it. Thats why I agree with Steve Grant - we need to remove the WHOLE of those involved in the incompetenvce that has led to this position.

Agree with all that - just making the point that after 27 years of top flight football it has been a mystery as to how our finances have been so poorly managed in the last 12 years or so. Which mirrors MLTs statement on SSN 2 months ago. Thats the point. And I do not believe that being a plc has assisted in any way whatsoever in reinvestment in the club - partly through dividends in the profitable years, mostly through incompetence of the plc boardmembers. One thing is sure - after 27 years of top flight football somehow we are now pennyless. That comes over time - yes compounded by recession perhaps but not if the club is winning and well run. Sorry I stand by my key point - we have been managed by fools and a foolish system of running a football club and elite sports organisation for which we are now suffering the consequences. It is not all Crouch's fault. Mismanagement of this club began when the decision to move to become a plc was made. And the resulting league positions thereafter is the only evidence required.

Read the whole CB, that is just a part. You dont mysteriously mismanage 27 years of first flight money away on just wages - especially for the low grade/mediocre ones we have been investing in since Lowe materialised on the scene.

I think that we still may see SCW as Saints manager. Until Lowe is removed anything is possible. Be afraid, be very afraid.

The effects of recession are not the problem with Saints - that comes from mismanagement, the effect of recent Club policy and subsequent results, association of Lowe with the club disuading investment and a remarkable series of payments over the years to major shareholders (from expenses to dividends). Recession Lord Mawhinney has nothing to do with the clowns we have had since the plc was set up running, influencing and taking from this club.

It would be impossible!

Richard Chorley, laying down the 30 pieces of silver...! Nominate him by post at: Fans Parliament, Freepost, St Mary's Stadium, Brittania Road, Southampton, SO14 5FP

Would it cost £4000 if you wanted to hire it out for a local band gig as well?

We cant do that for our protestors though - as they're all under 18 apparently.

LOL no problem.

This one is interesting: November 2006 - Fans of Schalke go silent for the first 19 minutes and four seconds (to signify the club's founding in 1904) against Bayern Munich to protest against the team's poor form. Schalke score in the 13th and 18th minutes but the game ends 2-2. Impossible at SMS?

Locked