SaintRobbie

You see I do think we are in this position because of Wotte. He has been the closest advisor to Lowe since August and filled Lowe's mind with sweety mice over the youth policy. It is only recently - with his own appointment and threat to his reputation (if he ever had one - see start of fred above!) - that there has been a policy change. It worked briefly, but now the CCC teams have realised they need to mark our only decent player (Saga) we're arguably a bit fooked. I see Wotte holistically for what he's done since arriving in August - not for the recent increase in form, which has us in the same position anyway. Also - to answer NickH's point - I do not believe we should openly stab Wotte right now, lets see if he can rescue his errrr 'reputation' - we have him now, and Lowe, until the end of the season. But I do believe we should be sharpening our knives. Whether we survive or not, neither Wotte or Lowe should keep their jobs. if they do its back to the youth nonesense in League 1 and Lowe's policy of consolidating his plc for profit...which will be almost nothing at best from now on in, so lets can the plc like Sheffield Utd have...oh yeah that involves Lowe being kicked out doesnt it!?

Hip was it? OK. Out of interest, do you think WGS would have left if he had felt he had the resources to improve Saints? I dont think he would have. The point I keep making about Wotte is that he hasnt just started as coach - he has been central to club policy from August. I have therefore made my mind up that the bloke is simply not good enough. Whether he saves us or not - he must go with Lowe in the summer.

Prof -I think you're forgetting conveniently that Wotte was the architect of JPs failure. To say Wotte is an improvement over JP, when he's given himself a different Club policy to follow that doesnt involve playing all kids, is not giving Wotte enough credit for the failure he started last August with Lowe. Wotte is not new - he has simply sacked a coach, changed the goal posts and inserted himself as manager. Wotte has to take as much blame - if not more - than JP for the first 2/3rd of the season. Can't do this straight forward selective JP v Wotte as coach idea - it is simply illogical to me and fails to look at the whole contribution from Wotte this season.

I think that is the point though DDs - if he stays after the Forest game with his master (whether we stay up or relegate). If that is the case I sense alot of pain.

I admire your spirit to be honest and we all hope the same deep down or we wouldnt be fans. But head has ruled my heart for too long since Lowe returned and I am bored predicting the next **** up from him. We have a chance, we could have done this with a new manager who understood the league and a new chairman who'd have provided some optimism. As it is we are going down IMHO... still its footy and stranger things have happened.

This story is interesting though (back to fred)... Wotte relegates - drops a league and JP promotes using kids. Now this time JP largely ensures relegation (although Wotte is running the club policy dont forget) and what happens next - Wotte promotes with kids? Nah... dont think that reversal is going to work some how. Worrying thing is if we allow Lowe and by association Wotte to stay in the summer I have no doubts we'll see the kids out in League 1 a la the example given..................................... and we'll be in League 2 by May 2010.

Me too - from some of the dads at his kids boarding school.

Good point. Are we playing Man Utd for the rest of the season in the Premier League then?

Good point... and WGS would have been a loser leaving us, had he not left of his own accord as he ...errr 'had to have a knee operation' and had 'promised his wife he'd only do a couple of years at Southampton', just after Lowe had failed to back him in the transfer market. Think Wotte is more of a genius than WGS is then?

Good point Dulldays. Very good point to be fair. That said, Arry and WGS also have a record in doing well after Saints though too - which makes you wonder what went wrong AT Saints really. I'm sure Wotte will do well in his next job.

Whats wrong with posting that ? I'd say it's a key bit of info in assisting shaping opinions whether you're supporting the club every week or staying away because of Lowe. Certainly not seen that myself before, pretty important I'd say knowing Wotte is a loser like Lowe.

Oh god - I didn't realise that. So Wotte has form in being relegated in similar circumstances? You couldnt write this script if Saints were a soap opera could you?! Confidence levels in Wotte now completely shattered.

Agreed 100%. Draws are only to be played for in the last minute when a goal down. We have created a team of nobodies this season. Stripped of men and those who did stay humiliated through club selection policy. Lowe = consolidate, consolidate, consolidate. Wrong strategy for a football club. Wrong strategy for elite sportsmen, from the top down it should be our policy to demand success and sack failure. Starting with Lowe, the biggest failure of all.

If Lowe stood down now we'd increase the gates by 5000 per game IMHO.

I think there's alot of truth in that.

at least 3pts from Rasiak.

Can I ask you a serious question Mike? Would you reassess your position of not going to games if we lost Lowe for good and Wotte was replaced - even if we're in League 1? i.e. would it give you some optimism?

Maybe SOG, maybe. Changing tack slightly - back onto the fred... Did we lose our loan signing due to finance, not being able to attract anyone better than we have or the fact that no-one better than we currently have would want to come to the club, given the gross mismanagement of players partly illustrated by the quitting of the one quality loanee we did have to relegation rivals Watford? Cant attract better players than we have due to poor management perhaps?

We're in a worse position regardless of the game in hand - simply, we have less games to play to bail us out!

Completely Lowe and Wotte's fault. Aferall they appointed JP in the first place. Lowe and Wotte are ENTIRELY to blame. JP was given a foolhardy club policy to adhere to - no surprises he failed.

I think that sums it up.

To be honest - we'd be in the CCC or League 1 now under Lowe regardless of which stadium we found ourselves.

...and paid dividends to shareholders instead of pumping back in to the club to ensure Premiership status.

Dexter isnt worth £2.2m!

Agreed - but they've been on the bench/injured in Rasiak's case and Bristol and Watford have strikers as well who are better than certainly the man they moved away for - DMG. However, I think we'll disagree that playing for your Club in a relegation battle would not have enthused Stern - the evidence is clear from last year. If you look at their stats for games played/goals scored (and can be bothered to do a comparison ) then I suspect you'll find a higher hit rate than DMG and Euell.