egg

That's a very long way to say that you want less immigration, and that more people = more crime. We're going nowhere here so I'll tap out.

Saying that more people= more crime is stating the obvious. That's an inevitability if a growing population, however it grows. I took your original point to be a suggestion that immigrants are more likely to commit crime than non immigrants. If that was your point, it's incorrect.

A percentage of everyone in society will commit crime, and immigrants aren't more likely to commit crime than others. The immigration issue is an issue, but the immigrant crime point is a red herring.

And "angry in a moment" that he chose to involve himself in. Not easy to mitigate for a bloke like that though.

3 years for that charmer.

They're linked only in that some yobs see the immigration issue as a(nother) reason/excuse to be violent. No normal person, with an issue about immigration, links that problem to violence. You've seen the form of some of those toe rags sentenced today. Absolute stains on society who saw an opportunity and took it.

They're entirely different issues, and violent disorder must be addressed strongly, especially if it's possibly the tip of an iceberg.

Appointment

I agree that most of us are actually on the same page, albeit we come at it from different angels. And yep, it's incredibly sad, and it's hard to envisage a cheery ending.

I prefer the judge's approach. The police should be protected from violence. Dislike them, sure, hate them if you must, but acting on that with abuse or violence has no place.

I was with you until the last bit. There's no "rather" about dealing with violent protestors, but a necessity.

The interesting thing is I don't think anyone on here has labelled you. I recall you doing it to yourself on occasions, including self describing yourself as islamophobic or similar - apologies If I remembered the wrong word that you sued. You don't strike me as that though and your views generally don't present as extreme.

I get all of that. There's no easy solution, and the fact that isolated (but appalling) incidents are sending people over the edge, tells a story. That said, the Southampton protests were not about stopping immigration: it started with shouts of "get them out", so directed at people already here, and the Belfast protests saw the homes of settled black people being targeted. Immigration is a factor, but just one - the judge in Southampton crown court today nailed when he said "This violence was hate crime, borne out of hatred of the police and in some cases racist views,"

Oh come on, you're brighter than that. Lots of people (me included) have an issue with our level of immigration, legal and otherwise. However, the vast majority of people realise that sounding off about it on SM, and especially inciting or insinuating violence, doesn't address the issue - that's the nonsense I'm talking about, not the underlying issue. You either have your head in the sand or buried up your arse if you don't see that SM plays a huge part in the violent protests that we're seeing. You're looking at just the issue just as you see it, not all the issues individually and then in the round.

It's not being said. It's a perception.

Spot on. The line between having a voice and using SM as a platform to spread and incite nonsense has been well and truly crossed, and that's spread into society proper.

SM isn't left or right mate, but it's a huge part of the problem. Identifying it as part of the problem is correct, and it only makes things worse if you're of the ilk that sees his doing that as an issue.

Amen to that. The issue is money, and bodies, as much as anything. The immigration and asylum tribunal system has a finite number of judges. The lord chancellor could redeploy from elsewhere, but there'd be uproar of that was from the court system, or other tribunals such as send or employment. The only solution, as you say, is a streamlined process with less checks and balances, and imo there needs to a swift move to a streamlined non judge led process.

The politicising in this thread tells you all you need to know about many people's priorities. Frankly, I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to mention left or right.

That's the issue. He has a right to a fair trial, and appeal, but there's judicial control over that. All I ask is that things are processed as quickly as possible, as I'm sure the rioters will be.

Cheers, I hadn't appreciated that. I had understood that he was still seeking asylum.

I think you mean people with thinking that warrants criticism.

It feels bizarre to me that someone seeking asylum can land in Dublin and literally be able to walk into the UK. But sure, I suspect it happens often.

Agree to all of that. The outrage of a normal human being doesn't involve targeting human beings with different colour skin or a different religion, or burning their houses. What we're seeing is people taking an opportunity to act out their prejudices, and for others to stoke them. Reprehensible stuff. And yep, give the bloke a fast track trial, ditto any appeal, and get him gone. Bizarre that he was able to remain in NI given he landed in Dublin.

Updated. People being "burnt out of their houses", "apocalyptic scenes", and "black people targeted". The incident yesterday was appalling, but this kind of reaction is disgraceful. The state of the nation.