egg

It don't move to portswood for peaceful protest. It moved for what we saw. I'm surprised there's dispute about that. The debate about the wider issues has begun, quite rightly, and I anticipate we'll see changes. Whether that gets stifled due to violence I'm unsure, but violence, often incited by a mixture of political opportunism and societal frustration (a benevolent choice of word), achieves absolutely nothing positive and only creates further divisions thus deepening the problem.

That's different to your comment that protesters were "angry at how the police carried out their duties on that fateful night". Whilst this case highlighted serious issues needing urgent attention, there isn't two tier policing, that's populist language. I agree with the sentiment of your last paragraph, but would say that was the main reason.

Thanks, just read that. Copied below: Nigel Farage, the Reform UK leader, also asked about the Nowak murder. He said: Farage suggested that was behind “the upset and the anger at the circumstances of his death, the anger that you saw spilling out in Southampton last night”. Some MPs jeered at Farage, saying he should condemn the violence. Farage went on: Starmer said: “I don’t believe there’s two-tier policing in this country.” And he said that he was “really shocked” by Farage’s approach. He said Farage pretended to respect Nowak’s family. But he was acting like this. Starmer went on:

I doubt you'll find any right minded person applauding any riots or rioters. "Voice of the unheard". What bollox. We don't live in a dictatorship where the masses have to rise up. A few coppers fucked up after a nasty cunt killed a lad. That, and the policies and societal shift which allowed it to happen, needs looking at. Everyone accepts that. What we don't need is more nasty cunts doing nonsense, creating yet more division (word deliberately used because it's a genuine problem, despite your view).

Are you seriously suggesting that yesterday's nonsense was mostly about those police officers poor judgement?

Kettle

That's telling us what should go, but not what should happen instead. A "review" isn't a policy, it's merely saying "I don't like something but haven't got a clue what I want instead". Nobody can credibly campaign, or debate, on that sort of footing.

Devils advocate. How about ensuring that working class people, those without a degree, disabled people, etc, get a fair crack of the whip? Apparently the idiots throwing bins around yesterday just want the ordinary man to be treated the same as anyone else... Done properly, diversity and inclusion goes beyond sex, sexuality and colour, and surely there's a need to make sure it happens.

You conflate all sorts of points. Anyways, I've asked you previously if you want the state pension to go (or at least the triple lock), or just the parts of the welfare state that won't benefit you...

They absolutely aren't. The lurch to reform, and now the other lot, isn't stopping. People seem to have an "anything else must be better" mindset which stops them playing the tape forwards and considering what the anything else could actually look like. That said, and people can say what they like, the pull to those parties is centred around one primary issue, and Digwa type incidents will only strengthen the pull...the mindset is "if our home grown brown people can do that, think what the boat people can do" etc.

I'd take some persuasion that it extends life as such, but there's no doubt that it makes life easier as people get older and helps mental health. I see fella's in their 70's in the gym throwing weights around. They're all sharp as a tack and no less sprightly than half the kids taking up space while watching insta.

Iron

You highlighted 4 things that you said are getting worse due to labour policies. None are. I'm not going to widen a debate with you when you make stuff up and can't acknowledge being wrong.

Jesus wept. You don't arrest/deport the family of criminals, even if they're brown.

I'm not sure you'll find one on here mate.

I wrote in bold to differentiate between your text and mine. You said those 4 things have got worse under labours policies. None are, hence my reference to fact checking. You've added benefits in - that wasn't one of your points. How about net migration?

The point remains, neither are the working class hero. They both want the top job, have tuned into populist policies based around similar themes.

No disrespect, but you need to focus on facts not opinion. Why is the country failing? - Inflation Not increased under labour - Currency Debasement/Money Printing Not increased under labour - Successive governments sold off our assets and manufacturing Not happened under labour - Net zero has driven up energy prices, which has driven up the price of everything else Have you been following geopolitics recently? But yep, net zero is nuts and hasn't helped. All of the above are being made way worse by Labour Nonsense - see above

Indeed. Farage and Lowe. The working class heros, or self-serving sabre rattlers. Take your pick.

Please explain the link between between paragraphs 2 and 3, what people think it'll achieve that's useful, and how you feel division helps a divided society.

People popping a flag on their house is altogether different than sticking them on lamp post after lamp post, painting a roundabout or a crossing. There's no credible reason to do that other than create division imo. What explanation are you supposed to give your kids or grandkids for it?

Yep, lots needs to be learnt from this. Allegations of racism mustn't be dismissed out of hand but neither must they be accepted at face value. And the carrying of any weapon in a public place must be outlawed, just no need for it.

Oh come on, that's hyperbolic, and avoids any context. Our flag is not a hate symbol, but it's being used in many contexts to create division. That's undeniable. And you're better than saying that the police would "rather" see someone die than challenge them. The copper got it wrong, and had no idea the lad was dying.

You say that, but the climate has gone a bit weird. Nearly 40c in northern Europe in May isn't right. Nowt we can do about it, although the chem trail brigade will tell us it's all weather manipulation, or some such.

Alive