egg

Yep, we're doing a road trip in Belgium. The Brits stand out a mile everywhere we go - fat and either pale or orange. The locals are nearly all in great nick.

I think that's the case.

I think it's gone quiet because Tonda is in the middle of an internal disciplinary process, and the club are saying nothing until that plays out. If he had our backing, the club would have said so.

Yes, but, he/we failed to grasp the distinction between the intent to gain an advantage and getting one, and having maintained that no real harm was done, the panel viewed the club’s defence as an attempt to downplay a "top-down" operation, ultimately leading to our playoff expulsion. Absolute cock up all around.

Relating that to our case, when McLaren stole Ferraris data to attempt to get an advantage, they had Hamilton and Alonso (the reigning world champion) as their drivers. Just having the best drivers/players wasn't enough for them, they felt the need to spy to gain a sporting advantage. The panel referenced the McLaren case for good reason.

That's like saying you can't grade stealing. You walk into a jewellery shop and instinctively nick a silver ring, it's stealing. You walk in and nick all the diamond rings and out of the window, in a planned theft, it's stealing. Both stealing, but different grades, and get a different penalty. This advantage gained point is nonsense. The panel were spot on when they said "sporting advantage is different from sporting success". They ruled that an "advantage" is gained the second a club compromises an opponent's privacy with the intent to cheat—regardless of whether they actually go on to win, lose, or play poorly on match day. In truth, who knows what our kid saw. Whilst Tonda testifies that it was nothing , his credibility was shot by that point so the panel wouldn't have believed anything he said. Regardless, the decision was that we were seeking an advantage to help us sew up the tie and get to Wembley for the big one. That, on any objective assessment, is unarguable.

I don't read your posts as discussion. You have this view that we've been really hard done by, have suffered the mother of stitch up, and only a real fan would agree with that. That's not discussion, it's an entitled Gen Z attitude which boils my piss.

Tis the way of the world CB; no accountability, always someone else's fault, always someone to blame, it wasn't that bad, whataboutery, etc.

And funnily enough against the other team involved, not some other team, which makes the whole "why did Boro go through when we cheated against Boro" I keep hearing argument a tad odd. On your main point, I'm sure even you agree that there's a world of difference between a player instinctively going down and the ref giving the wrong decision, and a clubs manager coercing a kid to go on a planned spying mission, wearing a disguise.

There isn't. There are people who view what's happened objectively, not the way you want them to. That's different.

Literally the 1st post in response, and you emphasise his point. There was no "biased jury", or "dodgy review process". We pleaded guilty. They had to give us a sporting sanction, yet there we were asking for a fine. That's after lying through our back teeth. No humility, no genuine remorse, no reality. It'd be like drink driving, initially trying to blame your mate, then putting your hands up, but asking to keep our licence. Boro went through because we tried to get a sporting advantage against them. As qwrrtyyell says, this is not complicated.

"Minor misdemeanor". Bless. And cut this "stand up for your club" bollocks. I still support my club, I'll be there next season, if Tonda stays he'll get my support. I haven't got to think that Tonda should survive what he's done to "support my club" - I'll support it in the way that I have for the last 40 years+, and don't appreciate some prick on a forum implying me that I'm not a supporter cos I don't agree with him.

Very insightful, thank you.

Cheers, I hadn't seen that. I'd imagine he's on garden leave pending the conclusion of any disciplinary process/FA process.

How do you reckon that'll sit with a) sponsors and b) players? I'd be staggered if he still has the support of the dressing room.

This isn't a criminal court. It's a tribunal/arbitration, and the panels role was to consider what both sides sought. We sought a fine...that's like trying to rob a bank and asking for a conditional discharge... ridiculous approval from the club.

That's bollocks. The panel had to punish us, and it had to be a sporting sanction. You don't try to sort the opposition team and tactics in breach of the rules and avoid a sporting sanction. Not even in saintsweb land. I'm still waiting for someone to give one credible, just one, sporting sanction. I can't think of anything other than points in this league and an EFL cup ban BUT the club didn't seek that. They pressed for a fine which was, being blunt, absolutely fucking deluded of them. Given the choice between our suggestion of a fine, and the expulsion, it was only going one way.

Yep...and the club offered up no credible sanction for the EFL to hit us with...give them the option of expulsion or a fine was inviting expulsion. We had to have a sporting sanction for a sporting offence like that, and the reality is that points wouldn't have hit us, and having not attempted to steer the panel towards something else (EFL cup ban, for example) i can't see that else they could do. It seems like we payed a game of chicken with them, and lost badly.

I spoke with a prominent ex player in the week. He thinks the lads will feel that way, and won't want to play for him.

Parsons opening his mouth was stupid, but the evidence may have meant we were screwed anyway. Who knows. I'd like to know whether Tonda has lost the dressing room, but regardless, his position is untenable for me.

These theories are utterly pointless. We sent a bloke up there to watch them train. That's it.

We ain't in a position to make any demands. They hold the cards here...and the gun.

The EFL could / should make it clear that a line has been drawn under all our 25/26 spying activities, and that the league and it's members now need to move forwards.

I see the Tonda thing differently. Us not ditching him took away a wee bit of mitigation, and keeping him won't help with some sponsors. He's staring down the barrel of a ban, and that'll only get worse for him if he's done more. Sure, he knows where the skeletons are buried, but his problem is that he ordered the killing.

Agreed. Boro threw the kitchen sink at this. There's undoubtedly been more though, and what's unclear is whether the EFL asked us whether there was more. If they did, and we denied there was, but more comes it, it'll get messy.