Long Shot

Fair question TBH I don't think Crouch wants back in as Chair or even on the Board but he is willing to help out financially (as others maybe) if Lowe backs away. As to who will run the club I think there are well respected local people who have been approached but there is obviously a long way to go. All I do know we can't just sit back and watch this car crash any longer.

Nothing to do with me but I noted this e address in the Echo comments page for people to leave their thoughts I guess. When I woke this morning my first thought (sad I know) was the awful predicament we are in and I felt sick to my back teeth. I love this club but the spirit has been beaten from me to the extent I don't know if I care any more and that is killing me. There are so many brilliant fans who feel the same way - lifetime supporters who have just had enough. There are lots of reasons why we are where we are but I am afraid we simply will never turn the corner with Lowe at the helm.

I think LC accepts he is going to have to be the ultimate executioner but I also know he is desperate not to harm the club, especially now. It is a fine line to tread. There is a nice way of doing this and a not so nice way if you get my drift. But fan pressure has a part to play without a doubt. Barclays are aware that under Lowe it is an unhappy ship with no real direction and the problem will not be solved by selling off the family jewels, only delayed.

He couldn't guarantee John a game every week? Doesn't have a problem with promising just that to McGoldrick.

Lowe's biggest mistake (as far as the club is concerned) is befriending and then coniving with Guy Askham - it was all downhill after that.

Absolutely correct. Crouch was "negated" by the executive coup soon after Wilde went. He opposed the Euell deal big time (because it was outrageous in monetary terms) but Hone persuaded Wiseman to vote for it. Crouch after becoming chairman actually made this club money after getting a nice packet from Scotland for Burley (they initially offered nothing) and then getting Pearson for a lot less annual salary than that compensation. Crouch's only financial outlay as Chairman were the loans at the end of the season that ultimately kept us up. Now, I am not saying Crouch is the "be all and end all" when it comes to being a Chairman and I think you will find he is the first to hold his hands up at some of the things that happened in the last half of the season when he was in charge but he has qualities that put him way ahead of Lowe and Wilde. For a kick off he is still prepared to put his own money in and two he actually cares about the club first and foremost. Whilst that last quality can be a hindrance and cloud judgement I still trust him more than Lowe and Wilde to do the right thing when all the chips are down. And I am confident Barclays think along similar lines which, when all said and done, is the most crucial fact right now.

Well it seems some of the "people involved" are fans too and as such keep an eye out on fan opinion.

Nick - Au contraire, I think the club is facing its biggest ever battle and all you can do is split hairs. I have done my best to deliver proof of what is going on up at SMS re JP and RL but you want it gift-wrapped and on a silver platter before you will even concede there might just be some truth in it. Fiddling while Rome burns?

No but people were interested and asked me to put up so I have. I have since also recieved some interesting PMs amd it seems Barclays aren't Rupert's biggest fans. I think the suggestion is that if he was to "go" then the situation would be a little more fluid. Perhaps the people the fans should be pressurising to request Lowe's removal is the bank.

Still in denial Nick? (Ask any of the board members who were there when Lowe tried to bring back Hoddle. He also wanted to be DoF then.)

Here are the minutes. There is not a lot of rocket science contained within but it does have Andrew Cowen proposing Lowe for a paid DoF role. I have highlighted that part which is the only change to the original. Minutes of Meeting of Southampton Leisure Holdings plc Shareholders Held at Runnymede Hotel, 14:00 14th November 2007 Present : Michael Wilde Leon Crouch Rupert Lowe Andrew Cowen Mike Richards Patrick Trant Stuart Green Marc Jackson 1. SG opened the meeting by welcoming everyone and thanking them for their attendance. The meeting was a follow up to the previous meeting held at Careys Manor Hotel in Brockenhurst on 25th October 2007. The focus of the meeting was to be on the current position and future plans rather than historic events. This was to explore where a consensus of views could be agreed to establish an agreed joint course of action. 2. AC then suggested the Agenda items as follows: a. SISU Offer – Still no contact to the questions raised in letter to the current board dated 26th October b. Current Situation – Significant financial losses being incurred by the club and a real threat of administration c. AGM – not yet announced but imminent d. Forward Plan – What can be agreed e. Current Board – What consensus there is amongst the shareholders on their current performance f. Terms of Reference – What can be agreed to go forward 3. AC proposed that the terms of reference should focus on the following: i. Reuniting the directors and shareholders to a common voice ii. Having an executive that effectively represents the shareholders iii. Any board should have expertise in the following areas 1. Primarily Football Management 2. Commercial Activity 3. Managing the Football Manager 4. Recruitment of young players into the Academy 5. Re-establishment of the Academy as a centre of excellence From AC’s prespective the current financial situation is “heading over a cliff” and there is a window of opportunity to correct this, but only by taking decisive actions between now and the year end. There needs to be a commonality of purpose and the last two and a half years of division in the boardroom and amongst the key shareholders has to be put aside for the greater good. AC proposed that MR would be an eminently suitable Non Executive Chairman as he was prepared to take on this position without remuneration. MR had stood on the board for some 17 years, and had extensive experience as a Chairman of a Public Limited Company. This could not be agreed at this point. AC further proposed that RL be appointed as the executive director responsible for all football matters, due to his history of having over ten years experience of this. This could not be agreed at this point. MR believed that the first financial control to be put in place is to control the wages bill and transfer fees. MR stated that he believed that consensus was essential and confidence and confidentiality is needed inside the boardroom. AC commented that the previous plan “B” which should have been implemented in the event of the club remaining in the Championship without the benefit of parachute payments had not been implemented and that costs were apparently still being held at Premiership levels. RL commented that in his recent discussions with the company’s bankers that the current expenditure levels did not stack up. RL asked the question of what the views were of MW and LC and what they propose to do to address the problem. LC commented that in his view there should be a CEO and a Chairman of the PLC which would be the controlling board of the club, and that the football club board should be identical in structure to the PLC board. All present concurred with this view. LC proposed that the four incumbent executives on the PLC board – Ken Dulieu, Jim Hone, Andy Oldknow and Lee Hoos should be removed by the shareholders at the earliest opportunity. It was stated that Keith Wiseman was understood to be up for re-election, but was unlikely to stand. In the event of his standing it was felt that this would not be supported by the shareholders. All present concurred with this view. AC pointed out that it was essential to keep a qualified club secretary in office; he believed that there were three such qualified people in the club – Barry Fox, Liz Coley and Lee Hoos. AC also pointed out that there was a perfectly well qualified Head of Operations in Brendan McLinchey. AC also pointed out that David Jones should be retained as Finance Director. All concurred with this except LC who questioned if this was the correct position to take. After discussion, it was resolved that David Jones is the best man for the job, and was essential to provide continuity. This would leave a board consisting of PT, LC and DJ, after the clearout was complete. LC then proposed his replacement board consisting of the following: 1. An independent chairman 2. A Managing Director/CEO with football expertise 3. A director for each of the three “tribes” 4. An independent non executive. This would be a board with a maximum of six. It was then suggested that this should be extended to include a Finance Director in the person of David Jones – making a board of seven. It was further agreed that the football club board would mirror the same structure – and this would ensure that only one board meeting was necessary. AC commented that this was still a very large board for a business with a turnover of around £15m, but agreed that this may be the right compromise. Discussion then took place on individual roles as follows: Chairman – Mike Richards MR then proposed Rupert Lowe. Neither of these proposals could be agreed. MD/CEO – Football responsibility and management of football club manager and with business responsibility to get costs under control. MR proposed Rupert Lowe, and LC proposed Andrew Cowen. AC felt that he had the required skill set to do this position, with the exception of the football responsibility as this was not his strength. MR then left the meeting at this point as he had to catch a flight. AC then re-iterated his support for Mike Richards as Chairman based on his proved independence and ability to represent shareholders. Further discussion then ensued in which it was clear that both RL and MW could not agree to serve on the same board. This was set aside for further discussion. LC then proposed that in his view Andrew Cowen should be CEO and proposed Patrick Trant as Chairman. PT declined any interest in this solution. PT then suggested a joint CEO/Chair position. AC commented that this was the right and appropriate course for a Championship club. PT then agreed that if a suitable interim board could be established with the right terms of reference, he would be prepared to continue to serve. MW then stated that in his view an interim board must be appointed and should reflect the shareholders interest. This was not agreed. PT then suggested a board of 7 which would include MR, LC, MW, AC and David Jones. This was seconded by LC. This was agreed by a majority, but could not be agreed by MW, who was not inclined to comment on this. MW re-iterated that the alternative Interim board must be agreed before any moves are made to replace the existing executives. Some discussion then followed on the right mechanism to remove the current executives. The timelines discussed centre on the next board meeting due to take place on 29th November and the AGM which needed to take place by 28th December. RL suggested that the appropriate mechanism was to seek a meeting with the current executives with MW, RL and LC alongside a legal representative. Mark Shepherd of Shoosmiths was unanimously agreed as a suitable legal representative. If agreement could not be found at this stage it would then be appropriate to call an EGM. AC then suggested that the likely makeup of an interim board would be as follows: AC – CEO but be prepared to give up his proxy so that the board was not seen as being biased toward any one tribe, but with a deadlock process in place to resolve such situations. PT - Non Executive Director David Jones – Finance Director RL – Executive acting as Sporting Director MW – Non Executive Director LC – Non Executive Director MR – Possible Non Executive Chairman It was not possible to agree these proposals, but AC agreed to act as a central contact point to resolve the three main difficulties that remained – as follows: 1. MR as Chairman – further discussion essential to see if this can be agreed 2. RL – to decide if he is prepared to serve on the board with MW 3. MW – to decide if he is prepared to serve on the board with RL. The meeting was then closed at 1550.

Plenty of managers have had "lolly" had not done much as Newcastle fans will testify. Everyone may hate HR but it's funny how he has become a sought after manager in recent years.

I have a scanner but not sure how I then go about puting them on here

Phil I have a hard copy of the minutes in front of me as I type - verified by 2 people who were at the meeting. They run to 4 pages and I guess I could type them up and publish, which I will do if needed, but someone must have an electronic version to save my fingers. As an interesting aside I heard when all parties had gathered Lowe kicked off procedings by telling Wilde he had promised Mrs Lowe that next time he was in the same room as Wilde he would give him a good hiding. Needless to say the meeting understandably went down hill after that.

4 years ago, all but a month, Rupert Lowe suddenly woke up to the fact that we were a club in freefall and sacked Wigley to replace him with "Sir Harry Hotspur" but it was too late and we went down. The writing had been on the wall ever since the appointment of Sturrock but Lowe’s stubbornness to recognise the signs cost us dear. Throughout that Wigley autumn he referred to our slide down the table “as just a blip”. 4 years on we are still a club in freefall and 4 years on Lowe’s stubbornness is set to inflict more pain on Southampton FC. Is there any hope - or do we all sit back and watch it happen? Our last day survival v Sheffield United could have been the turning point for this club but Lowe was not prepared to give it a chance. Leon Crouch had appointed a well-thought of, inexpensive young manager who was already turning things around in terms of attitude, fitness and pride. Barclays were happy that the rot had stopped and steps were being put in place to address the financial problems. The executives and Michael Wilde had had their day (as had Lowe) and had been found wanting. There was a glimmer of hope that perhaps, just perhaps the corner had been turned. But Lowe had other ideas and a two-pronged reason to oust Crouch and form an unlikely alliance with his erstwhile foe, Michael Wilde. First the pair of them had to protect their investment. Crouch’s interest in his investment was never as important to him and that worried them. Secondly of course both men had egos and scores to settle even if it got in the way of the club making progress. Lowe had long fancied the role of DoF with a puppet like head coach underneath him. The Runnymede minutes and revelations by former board members confirm this. So he takes advantage of the opt out clause with Pearson and appoints a Dutch duo first recommended by Sir Clive Woodward. Poorvliet is way out of his depth but he is cheap and malleable – perfect for Lowe’s plan. But the plan is flawed. Sure, some high earners needed to be moved on but a lot of it is false economy. Stern John’s departure this week a classic example. True he was on a big wage but you watch the gate dip on Tuesday because fans have had enough watching the likes of BWP and David McGoldrick struggle to score. His departure proves that businessman Lowe is not that canny. Saving a few thousand on wages which will now be lost on the gate is not sound management, not to mention the loss of a 20 goal a season forward. I am also told that JP had not seen any of our new players play before signing them and that being the case is it any surprise he is finding it hard to mould them into a decent cohesive unit. Especially when he is told who to pick and who not to. The ridiculous way he has had to persevere with David McGoldrick on Lowe’s instructions is farcical in terms of morale and team building. So what is the answer – do we all accept our fate? Is there an alternative? Rumour has it Crouch is still prepared to put some money in the club to help stave of administration and others too maybe willing but not if Lowe and Wilde remain in charge without dipping their hands in their private pockets. The time has come for both men to realise they are now the problem. Barclays were much happier with Crouch’s stewardship and with Wilde and Lowe gone it is still not too late to halt the rot. There is an AGM approaching and I expect there will be some movement behind the scenes, but even that may be too late. The “total football experiment” needs to be abandoned – we need to appoint a decent manager who knows how the CCC works and the two tainted Chairmen need to do the decent thing and fall on their swords. I am sure, then, people will step forward to steady the ship.

I would still bet on him keeping Spurs up. Worth a punt I reckon.

Even blank cheques don't win Cups neccesarily

A good goalkeeper performs well all season - Davis is a flash in the pan, good sometimes and an able shot stopper but always prone to errors and bloody useless at crosses. Your thread was a little premature old son.

This is what worries me - people stop caring.

Would be interested in your definition of "excellent" and would like to know what adjective you would use if we were on top of the League - serious question.

Michael Wilde's your man there NickG:eek:

To answer your first question - I can now report back to you from Planet Earth. YES WE ARE!

Lowe for dual role combining DoF and team manager - you heard it here first.

:confused:

or even his son:rolleyes: