david in sweden

Me too, but I don't think we've seen the last of Jos either. Many of the squad were blitzed by the pace /skill of the opposition we had at the start of the season and Jos suffered more than most, but I'm banking on seeing him again - if and when required. The eventual new CB we sign in Janaury won't be " Saints-fit" until March.

.....so who would you deem to be inspired by ?......

Harsh criticism - even by your standards Turkish. ...and (being fortunate enough to be in the country to see the Newcastle and Norwich games) ..I thought they did a lot of running around and whether " fit or not "....3 games in 6 days is pretty tough with the same players...I can think of some other clubs who might have changed it around a bit ..

Not really changed my opinion from Day 1. * new territory for (almost) everyone from first game. * Extremely difficult start fixtures in first two months. * Players (and manager) not really prepared for what was to come. * has turned it around by implementing player changes * Absence of Jack Cork much worse than we ever expected. * Still believe NA is best man for the job... * will take one - two seasons to establish a good side......

except that if you want to compare stats.without PL games ....it means that Lallana's 37 goals in 170 Saints games (around 1 in 4.6) gives him an even better strike rate than Phillips.

OK Kraken, that's fair. Let's agree to disagree on that one. BTW Matt Phillips is described as a winger and his tally of only 23 goals in over 160 games doesn't fill me with enthusiasm for his goal-scoring abilities. JayRod's stats.....are 36 goals in 120 games..if that's anything to go by ?

OK Kraken, your answer is that Puncheon isn't a striker..(despite having scored 4 first team goals) so that means JayRod's only " challenger " is Rickie Lambert .... or ? As I recall there was a (fans) huge outcry when NA started him ahead of Lambert in the Man.City game. ......or did we forget that he was played in midfield and Guly was the sole striker at the start of that game. I think we'd all agree that Guly is not a contender for Lambert's place, but Puncheon has now taken the wide role that Jay Rod had in those following three games before being dropped, and most people agreed that JR wasn't suited to the wide role (rumour has it he said so himself)...so we are back to the same question. Jay Rod doesn't get to play unless he is...(proven to be) as good as / better than Lambert..........He may be tons better than RL (in training) but he's not going to get picked ahead of him....is he ? ...so it's a deadlock. A catch 22 situation. He won't score unless he plays ....and he's not getting more than 20 mins sub. time at present..and so has limited chances. He did score a good goal against Newcastle ...but the linesman made a wrong decision. It seems his only chance ....according to most on this board ......is if RL has a prolonged injury period (which of course none of us want)... and which the majority of the same think will be a disaster because he will never score (they say)....the way Rickie does. (Catch 22 again). ONE DAY...Ricky won't be there any more....and someone will HAVE to take his place...and will be forever dam*ed (by fans)...because he can't score the way (in the Prem) the way Rickie did ...back in those NPC / L1 days. The other issue I raised is that Prem. transfer fees are seldom so low as £1-2 million. We may have spent almost 50% of the summer money on one player, but lower league teams expect to cash in on their best players when selling to Prem. sides....as we did when selling Walcott, Bale and Alex O-C. Seeing the progress of those three players, somehow I feel we were robbed ! This is Prem.-land. Everything costs. Players salaries are higher.....and transfer fees more than most of us can ever imagine. I don't know about the rest of you but I didn't expect JayRod to come into the side ASAP ....as he was clearly RL's successor (as I think he will become - eventually) ...and then I'll come back and tell you the other James Beattie story !... Michu (were we EVER in for him) wasn't just a chance signing..he was all that Swansea could afford. They got a bargain (or so it seems at present) ...as we did when we signed RL from Bristol Rovers and people said that £1 million was far too much for an L1 striker... We got lucky.

Kraken ..in my view, (the flaw in everyone's arguement) about Jay Rod is ......IF... he were " good enough" (others words). WHO would he replace in the present side. YOUR ANSWER IS : ..............Who ? The fact that.... given we have 10 squad players who have scored in the league - so far...the only accepted strikers seem to be Puncheon and Lambert - would you drop one of them ? Give or take a year ...or three, the age issue isn't a factor for player who is getting games and is " on form" . Rickie Lambert isn't doing too badly for a 30 y.o striker......and (as we saw to out cost at SMS) . Paul Scholes's age is not an issue either. (No, I'm not comparing them !) All the Jay Rod criticism seems to be that 23 is TOO OLD ....for someone who is an (as yet) unproven Prem. standard striker. Thankfully ....Lambert is still able to net a few at this level, which gives Jay Rod (and others) time to mentally adjust to the Prem. level ..or as Puncheon (quoted in interview said )... not to be afraid of the opposition. We can still only have 11 on the pitch at the same time... and even coming off the bench the problem remains ....WHO?... does Jay Rod need to replace .....to get in the game ?

YES. but you've omitted to mention that most of the teams you've listed above will have (weather permitting) have played 2 or 3 games in that time... to our ONE. (Sunderland) Not a fair comparison. Surely it's more logical to compare stats. (if that's what you want to do).... after the New year (half way - games numbers 19 /20).. .and before the FA Cup games / transfer window. (if Adkins were sacked or not .......no other manager - if appointed) would have more games to manage until then.

YES I have seen the " Beattie comparison " before and I don't think that the age comparison can be denied but you may recall that the standard of football we were playing then, barely kept us in the Prem. I think we can all see that the club's present policy is to " buy 'em young " (Clyne, Ramirez, Mayuka, Gazzinga...and JayRod ) and slowly integrate Academy starlets into the side; (Shaw, JWP, Reeves...plus more in line) and creating a "new side" that is the same generation and likely to play together for a longer period (as was the MU side; Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Butt, and the Nevilles) way back then. As we were in the somewhat unusual situation of having an 11 year-old transfer record (£4 million, which has to be said - was not a lot of money even in 2001) - many fans seem to feel that the Jay Rod fee was " a lot of money " - whilst not recalling that 7 years on.....we had sold three of our own teenage talents for almost £30 million. In the present day Prem. £7 million is about par for the course. IF Jay Rod fails to deliver .then it may well be considerd "wasted money " but I equally feel it is wrong to judge Jay Rod (or anyone else ) on the strength of half-a-dozen games against top class opposition ..and a handful of short sub. apps. I think Jay Rod has potential and ..(at some future time... when he doesn't have to play second fiddle to RL).. we will see that fee justified. (....and you yourself also underlined the poiint that almost the entire squad is also new to the Prem. ......that shouldn't be held against him.

In the Wigan game, Lallana had enough chances to win two games, and both the Wigan goals were errors (by Fonte). Otherwise Wigan played a spoilers' game and didn't have much to offer in attack. These are similar to the stats. that I published a few weeks back. We were no real match for the teams we played in the first 6-8 games, (but as a new team in the Prem.) we are beginning to look like a mid-table side and the Sunderland game is " winnable ", or at least we should expect one point. By the half way point (at New Year) we will have a clearer picture of our true position. The first 5 away games we lost.... were all against teams presently in the top half of the table, who all have good home records and have beaten sides much better than us.

I have to agree with MLT on this one, Kraken. NO-ONE that I've read on here has ever suggested that Jay Rod was better than RL when we bought him. Clearly being 6 years younger than Rickie..and without the same experience / goal tally ....he was never going to replace him from day 1. It takes time for new players establish themselves - especially in the higher division I think he has great potential and sooner or later will replace RL who (despite his excellent Prem. start) definitely has a shelf life much shorter than JayRod. I recall James Beattie was less than worthless in his first two seasons...... before he found his form, and right striker partner(s).

Agreed...and even the thought of signing another striker (Hooper?) .or the return of Billy Sharp(?) doesn't change my opinion. He needs a good run in a solid team and we'll see some goals . Like many others, his introduction to the Prem. was horrific...... and he had no chance to show any type of form.

....maybe not £5 million, but a goodly sum and with a contract clause for a bit more ....." in the event of promotion to Prem.".-

Good to see a player respond to some " humane handling ". Somewhat reminiscent of Lawrie Mac's manner of dealing with Mark Dennis who no-one would touch with a barge pole. (he was the Joey Barton of his day)..but later developed into a LB worthy of consideration for England squad (of his day) Puncheon seems a totally different individual to the "spoilt brat " we had to loan out for the last year or two.. well done Jason..and well done NC /NA for giving him a second chance. A lot of managers might have shipped him out ASAP.

I've been a constant critic of Fonte this season, and not (I think) with good cause. He single-handedly cost us the Wigan game, BUT having watched the Newcastle and Norwich games first hand, I was impressed by his "revival " of form and feel he's beginning to look like the player we once knew - even though it is at a higher level. I only hope he can hold his form in the future. NOTE: Signing a new CB - doesn't mean that we should feel disatisfied with Fonte ........or Yoshida (who's beginning to look like a good signing ), but if any of them were to have a serious injury.....as did Jaidi, or like the " Seaborne Incident " we'd be really up against it without any good, experienced cover.

.that's soon remedied.....Dan Harding has gone already and Danny Fox's days look numbered.....if we had many more we'd sound more like a judo club; first Dan, second Dan, third Dan ......

well said Clarke-y ....was about to write the same comment....

Adam ..as one of the shortest (and perhaps) lightest players in the squad, I should think getting thumped by a 12 stone opponent might hurt a bit more than a 12 stone striker getting the same " treatment" .

I don't think anyone (sensibly) suggested this present squad was better than every other club in the Prem, but if we are only better / or/ as (good / bad) as the bottom half ....I'm satisfied for now.

I don't think we'll be qualifying for Europe this season.... but if the 3 or 4 (defeats) on the bounce that you stated include ......Man.City, Man. Utd and Arsenal ......will anyone be surprised?

.....do you think he means " third-rate " keepers....? But I think it was a bit unfair on KD - especially as two of Arsenal's tally were " own goals" ....and didn't he save a penalty in each of the Manchester games ?