david in sweden

I don't think many people would argue that Guly wasn't the best player in the club (his driving aside), but it was a sure way of looking at the others candidates withhout endangering another 3 points. If we learned anything from matches we've lost so far, we learned more from last night's game than any other this season.

Here I am agreeing with you (in principle at least). CB, ....but I don't believe either thing will happen ..not yet, at least. I think Nigel hasn't used up his nine lives yet, and after his experiences with Rupert Lowe...... the closest Gordon is likely to want to come to SMS is a seat in the stand.

they can only pick from the players they're given.....NA didn't choose some of the present crop he's responsible for ......

surprising response from a fan like you, Alpine, Look closer.... 4 of that "crap" that played last night also started the opening game v.Man City... but it was only the introduction of Lambert and Steven Davis that made that score look respectable.

the only consolation being......we now know what (their) limitations are, and..... it didn't cost us another three points to find out.

....but thats precisely why we field one squad for Cup games and another for the League......if neither of them can cut it...then that's another problem.

Reed is (actually) working as a Director of Football (but under another title)....and Nigel Adkins has to work with his selections......He can only work with the (staff) players he's given. much the same as in most companies.. the Boss makes the mistakes....... and the workers get the sack when everything goes wrong!

I think the real lesson to learn is that you can never anticipate how you think a promoted side will perform based on the previous seasons results, especially when moving up to the Prem. We're not alone with that problem, and it's not unusual to see at least 2 of the previously-promoted sides go down within 2 seasons......

I expected you to correct my punctuation CB (!)....but of course I should have said MLT ...for most of the time. However, the stats. are there for all to see and it's clear that many fans' expectations are far from the reality of Premier League football, but thanks for your (patronising) contribution all the same.

New(er) players look good coming into a balanced (winning) side, not one filled with reserve players and " young boys " who are scarcely old enough to vote. Arsenal showed what a second string should look like last night in that amazing game at Reading. 0-4 down.. and they still fought back, they had quality - even at that level - we don't.

....YES, but to be fair .....he didn't say ...but I didn't buy some of the players we've got...... and I didn't get some of those that I wanted. (he's certainly got the shi**y end of the stick)

I'm aware that there are several generations coming on this site and for some their history with the Saints may only have started 2-3 years ago, and they are only used to watching a winning side. As a fan of over 50 years, I (and many others) have seen many ups-and-downs and apart from the occasional bright spots (1976, 1978 and the early 1980's in particular) most of those " historic 27 seasons " in the top division were spent fighting off relegation - often by the skin of our teeth. The factor that produces a successful club in the Prem. is either ...lots and lots of money ...or lots of ..continuity and patience. Until the last 3 years we went through a period without much of either. Many of us overjoyed at our double-promotions realised that the gap between the top of the Championship..... and the bottom end of the Prem. is much greater than the 3 places vacated by last season's relegated clubs. Few of us, even Nigel Adkins (last season's hero and to some already the villian - even before the pantomime season begins), realised that so many of that successful squad weren't going to cut it in the Prem. and we missed the boat on some transfer targets that we might have had. Nicola Cortese's promise dream of Premier League in 5 years came to early fruition ...and it's certain that his new vision of Euro football certainly won't be achieved with so many of the existing players. For those older fans with short memories, and the others with short tempers, here's quick look back at some history during the last 20 years. To say that we have traditionally been poor starters... is an understatement to say the least..these stats. cover some of the many poor starts (in the first 8-10 games) of the following seasons. Season...W--D--L.........(goals) F-A 1990-91..2--2--4.....................11-15 91-92.....1--2--5...................... 8-14 92-93.....1--4--4.......................7-11 93-94.....1--0--8.......................7-15 95-96.....1--3--6.......................9-19 96-97.....1--3--5.....................11-13 97-98.....1--1--7.......................5-17 98-99.....0--2--7.......................4-22 99-00.....3--2--5.....................17-21 2000-01..2--4--3.....................12-13 01-02....2--1--6......................8-17 02-03....2--4--3......................6 -8 Some will say-but what has that got to do with our poor start now?....aside from the fact that 7 of our 9 games so far... have been against sides in the top half of the division? It's not just Saints...many newly-promoted clubs suffer the same fate, and are soon relegated. Remember Derby a few years back. The challenge for newly-promoted sides to the Prem. is far greater than anyone can imagine. 2011 runaway winners QPR only just survived, and Norwich are little better than we are so far this. During this period we had (if I'm correct 9 different managers)....few of whom had previously managed at the top level ...(can't count how many new players)..and we moved to a new stadium. There were (as far as I can see)..only two common factors covering the whole period (1) one player ...MLT and (2).... .in none of these seasons (above) were we relegated. We don't (at present) have an MLT, and our greatest achievement this season will surely be (as those listed above) to survive another season.

THIS !......but of course no-one likes losing - do they?.

The discussion topic was (maybe) Pulis luring RL to Stoke NOW, not 6-7 years ago. .....(and whilst Rickie's not an international (shame).... Stoke already have experienced players like ; Robert Huth 19 caps for Germany, Edu 40+ caps for USA, and Wilson Palacious 77 caps for Honduras, Matthew Upson 21 caps for England, Charlie Adam 20 caps for Scotland..and those other two fellas ..now what were their names ? .... oh yes.... Peter Crouch and Michael Owen....you've heard of them, I expect? If I was Pulis and making a " dream buy".....I don't think Rickie would be out of place in there..would he ? .. and it would certainly be a big lift for the Stoke youngsters to play alongside a bunch like that. I don't believe for one moment that such a deal would ever come off, but it was conjecture in the OP.... about Pulis ' (supposed) interest..to get Rickie, in a part-ex deal with KJ.

it's Brommapojkarna again. Can you imagine a club like Eastleigh.....or Salisbury... playing in the Premier League? Of course not, but next year The Swedish Prem. (Allsvenskan) will once again be graced by the tiny Stockholm club Brommapojkarna (Bromma Boys) They have been called "the mother of all nursery clubs" at last count had over 150 teams (for boys and girls aged 6-15)..who play on local municipal pitches in the Stockholm area (pop. 800, 000) BP's " first team squad " includes SIXTEEN players under 21 ..plus a few older heads to help coach them along..........not bad for a team 10 miles from the city centre with a single bus route to their tiny ground, which is adjacent to a housing estate. Match attendances are often low (2,000 is a good gate) as most Stockholm fans support one of the bigger clubs with glorious histories. Founded 70 years ago at the height of WW2, they provided youngsters with a diversion from the wartime worries, but afterwards the club played for decades in the lower leagues whilst providing a steady stream of talents who later turned pro. for the established "big clubs " like AIK and Djurgården in Stockholm. But when BP finally won promotion to the top flight 4 years ago, there were predictable results. Having to sell their best talents... they were relegated the first year, but now they are back again. An unpresidented run of good form moved them up to second spot in Superettan (read Championship).. and with one game left in the season, were assured of promotion (when third-placed Halmstad failed to win last night and will have to play off for their chance to get the third promotion spot). At a time when many clubs are focusing on big name players, and big prizes Brommapojkarna continues to provide Swedish football with grass-root talent who will make a career in the game ...and some who have even gone on to play at international level. They will surely struggle again next season, but they have learned a few lessons sínce last time..and whilst they don't see themselves ever playing in Europe, they will continue developing the stars of the future in the true spirit of the sport.

an alternative to that might be ....if one side goes 4 goals up......get Clattenberg to send off one of their players instead .....

LOL - nice one .....La BoIS

probably didn't ...anymore than anyone else, but tbf .he's very inexperienced and needs games. Whatever we may think just now , Boruc has games behind him - even at international level - and is the better bet long term.

.a similar thought occured to me ....

this is truly frightening. Out of the 84 listed ........34 are in their first season......and another 23 in their second. Nigel Adkins is in his third season (along with 9 others)... and listed at no. 23 Only 10 managers have completed 4 seasons or more. The average tenure for managers nowadays is only about 2 years...and many don't last even 6 months . It's pretty cut-throat in the 21st century ...compared to the historical management list.. Number 75 in that list had completed 15 seasons..and Ted Bates' 18 seasons only places him as no.44 Directors were obviously a lot more patient in bygone days.

I wouldn't say the gap was that much Turkish. ... the gap between the bottom of the Prem. and the top of the Championship is much more (in skill terms) than just 3 places. Look at our finishing squad in May...and the squad we have now...... Does anyone think we are worse now than when we were promoted in May..? I think not...nor do I think that the top six in the Championship are better teams than we are now?

we'd all like to think that some new talent would emerge... come on and play a blinder, clear a ball off the line.....and maybe storm forward in the last minute and score the winning goal....... ANSWER: re-read Roy of the Rovers everyone. I hope... after all this hype....that Luke Shaw is the good prospect we've all been led to believe.....but most of our present squad all have more than 100.....some several hundred ....games under their belts ..(at different levels) and the thought that we might suddenly find a new "star" ..(another Gareth Bale?)..is really putting unecessary and unwanted pressure on a lad who needs time to develop at the Prem. level ...as do all the rest of the squad.

right ...and few people have mentioned that 7 of those 9 games were against sides presently in the top half of the league....and those clubs didn't get there just by beating us .... .....and the next game is WBA who are also well-placed..... ......so if we don't get a win there, then look out for another four or five new threads demanding Adkins removal ....when it ought to be some of the defenders who should be replaced in January. As ever, November is going to be a crucial month ...and the QPR and Norwich games will set the seal on any decision that might be pending.