david in sweden

Great news everyone ..and we still have 9,000 seats left ! COYR !!!!!!!!!

Not looking to spoil the fun, but do you mean EVER...or just in living memory? My late father was a Saints fan (postWW2) and he told me about two notorious games v. Spurs at WHL. He told me lots about these two games. 1948-49 was the " infamous season " when Saints went top of Div.2 (CCC.today) at Christmas and were 8 points clear at Easter. The crowd was 69265. (Previous Spurs games got around 25,000 fans IN TOTAL.) I don't know if they counted heads but there were tens of thousands from So'ton there. Saints won 1-0 but Wayman got injured and Saints managed only 1 win afterwards and missed promotion by 2 points. THE NEXT YEAR, with roughly the same squad, but without Ramsey who'd moved to Spurs (Jan.1949) and Rochford who was gravely ill, Saints weren't quite the same team. That fixture got 70302 through the gate. Which (apparantly) is and will likely to remain forever, a Div.2 (CCC) record gate. Saints lost 0-4 and Spurs won the title. Saints and the two Sheffield teams all finished on the same points (Wednesday got promoted). Again there's no official record of Saints fans but recalling the 25000+ who went to the Cup replay at WHL in 1963, it sounds likley that there were just as many - maybe more. Interestingly, a story in one publication stated Spurs hadn't expected so many to turn up for a "neutral game " and only had stewards for half the gates, while the others remained locked. There were (thousands ?)more fans locked out, because the the "open" enclosures were full up - and there was no-one to let the late arrivals enter the ground. They stood outside and listened, and got goal info. from other fans who shouted over the walls !

There's always an element of that. In our Div.1 ( later Prem.) days BEFORE the all-seater Dell, we struggled a lot but whenever we had a good run, these " strangers " would suddenly turn up on the terraces with their red/white scarves and get names wrong, shout at the wrong players and moan at the team - as if they were the manager. Still...We live in hopes of a revival of the fan base..after all... there are 32,000 places to fill.

I think you're right. It certainly gives us a lot of experience at the back.

Agree with every word. His experience is priceless, but he can't play unless he's 100% fit.

Dave Puckett, one of the few So'ton lads to get a first team career, played (on and off for five seasons) during McMenemy's glory days. As you said he was super sub but scored mostly when he got the no.9 shirt at a time when there was no regular CF in the squad. He scored 16 goals in 59 apps + 52 subs. including 2 goals v. Arsenal at The Dell in Jan.1982 He'd built a good reputation as a Reserve striker, and scored over 80 goals during the in-between periods when he wasn't in the first team squad. Steve Moran, Cassells, IAN Baird, were other candidates for the CF spot while Frank Worthington rarely scored during his short stay, but life got tougher when he had to compete with Joe Jordan for the no.9 shirt. After Mc Menemy's departure he lost his way, and when Chris Nicholl bought in the explosive Colin Clarke he must have seen his days were numbered. Both he and Moran were gone inside a few months. Nice to see that a local lad is still involved in the club, as it helps to hold " the legend of the great Saints side ", at a time when everything has been so black.

Mmmmmmm ? I don't which of us is laziest, but it seems that Blackburn spent two seasons in Div 1 (now CCC) and were promoted back up again.

He would be silly NOT to. We don't want to spend longer in this Divsion that absolutely necessary. If we can hold this good form, we would be within striking distance of the play-offs and every able-bodied player would be needed.

Amen to that ! .even if we did start with -10, the recent away form looks really encouraging.

..... + (Died) ...also Alan Ball ..and this week David Burnside for those with longer memories.

It's good to see some " better form" from Wotton who hasn't been the most popular player with some fans on this site, but I think if we had to have someone upfield with the armband - it should be Hammond. A front line with Lambert, Lallana and Connolly - (and wide men like Papa Weigo).. does look great on paper, hope they can replicate on the pitch.

No offence Len, though I can promise you I am there in spirit..and any other on-line facility I can access. !

YES they were but fell like a lead balloon and were relegated to CCC 1998-99 after that ....who knows ? I think they may have got relegated even after that but were back in Prem. League 2001-02.

well thanks for the thought Len, BUT we know about those, too! Västerås and Nyköping Both are around 1½ hours travel time from me, and whatever you may think of Ryanair in the UK..in Sweden they are always getting bad press. Beside they fly to Stansted..and thats a longer journey into London before you get the bus from Victoria to So'ton. We've tried all that before. However, what I didn't mention was that I already have other arrangements for Saturday, though i do hope we can do the trip at sometime in the near future.

There you are Alpine, I'm agreeing with you again (this time anyway, and they say you have so many critics):confused: It's all in his own hands. I do think he is a player who needs a confidence boost, 'cos he was red hot in his first spell with us, but then loaned out by RL (to keep the salary bill down) ..only to find that scoring spark again when he returned from Denmark, but then didn't make a hit with the Dutch combo. 1 start and 4 subs this season = no goals. You can get away with a mediochre game if you're in midfield but not as a striker. I'm sure he's disappointed that (a) Rasiak has gone ..... (b) that he's still here and NOT playing ...and of course © for Polands exit from World Cup. Tough life Saga, but it's make your mind up time, or goodbye after the New Year. ADVICE : Get yourself a start in the next RESERVE game.....get a few goals and your bench place back in the first team ...

we had in the great McMenemy days (5 former England captains at one time) is a lovely part of our history but hardly relevant today. However, coming down to Earth (in League 1)... we have a number of players in the squad who have previously captained other teams... at some level or other . Of course Kelvin Davis is presently team captain (not easy as goalie) but surely Murty was captain at Reading for some time, I think (?) and formerly Wotton was at Plymouth. I know that Dean Hammond was formerly captain at Colchester. Have I missed anyone.......... ? This means we have a lot of leadership skills out there, surely that has to be a big PLUS factor in the revival ?

...looking at those other historical deals, I'd say that Lambert would be cheap at double the price. I'd say we have a very good deal, and so.. .apparantly does he

We're probably the same generation " Professor " , I remember when Dave Burnside arrived at The Dell in 1962 - around the same time as George Kirby and Stuart Williams. We'd had one of those infamous nightmare season starts and were bottom with only one win and a draw after 8 games. Kirby was the toughie, rugged journeyman CF and often gave more than he got and really cut up defences. WBA must have thought RB Stu Williams (then 32) was on his last legs, but he gave us 100% every game till he was past 36. But Dave Burnside was the quiet star. Great passer of the ball, a really superb left foot and no mean goalscorer either. While George O'Brien scored his usual 20+ goals a season, David hit 14 goals in his first season, and even bettered Kirby's goal tally (if I recall). Others have quoted those spectacular FA Cup games we had (after later recovering our form) and due in no small measure to Dave Burnsides great midfield dominance (alongside the splendid Ken Wimshurst in right midfield). Despite only having 70 outings, DB scored a respectable 22 goals (but made dozens for others ) and he has a place in the Hall of Fame for many of us, purely recalling his ball skills - and of course his total contributions in that great season ' 62-63. R.I.P.

...to boost the gate past that annoying 19 thousand - we keep getting. Although we've had over 20,000 for the opening game v. Millwall. Home League games since have been; 19169, 17070, 19907, 19724, 19457.. surely there must be a few "closet" fans who would come, now that RL is no longer chairman ..and we've actually won 3 games in a row ? COYR !!! (I'd come myself if I could, but there must be some others who live closer to SMS than central Stockholm !)

I'm sure he can, but the real question is ; Can he climb out of it afterwards?

If Martin signs, OL may be a good (trial) replacement for Martin at Eastleigh. They would gain someone with League experience, but if Ollie can't impress in Conference South, then he's got no future with Saints.

I'm very impressed to read this thread CEC. I'd like to say that I am most impressed by your version of a " moral code " and I would like to think that I try to do the same (though I may fail sometimes). I believe that there is a God, and I'm sure he might well approve. If you had a closer relationship with him, I think you'd feel that, too. I'm sure. I don't think you've bored people, in fact your contributions have been some of the more stimulating to read - do continue.

I think it is we are humbled Dubai Phil, I think you have been very open in expressing your feelings and (I/we) have done the same. I think you deserve some respect for listening to the opinions of others and have been willing to have a dialogue on " this most unusual thread ", without ranting on about " unbelief ". It may well be that you do not understand our viewpoint, but we are speaking with other experiences which (judging by some responses here) don't go down well with everyone. MY own personal observation is that, NO - God doesn't show/tell us/ explain everything, but that's where the faith comes in. Although I do believe that God is there for everyone (even the concentration camp guard) - if we choose to acknowledge him. I honestly admit that I have never been a great one for prayer - (sadly) but talking to God is just like talking to anyone else - he listens anyway. The only thing we have in common is impatience for an answer, but I do know that everything in our lives have a timetable in Gods' plan ..and " you can't get on the train - until the time is right for it to arrive " (own quote). *** Hi everyone else...I really think we ought to create a more suitable thread on/in the Lounge - (as almost everyone) else seems to do, otherwise this one will disappear into oblivion after Saturdays game (!).

I hope you don't mind me hopping in - CHAPEL - on this very interesting thread which goes back (I think) to yr.thread and my comment about M.Liebherr and his BILLIONS and the Third World poor (some days ago.) I too, am impressed by Landford Saint's eloquence, and yr. moving testimony especially as I also had a " crisis of faith " at a similar age. If there is a simple answer to the Halocaust question (I've never heard it),or why innocent children are brutally murdered by psychopaths, but a morally -corrupt atheist may live to 99. Although I have, many times, asked God why certain things have happened (to me) or others - I don't feel that I have blamed God because things " went wrong "/ or / didn't turn out the way I'd thought. Curiously, in consideration of the " Halocaust question ", I have seldom heard a Jew "accuse / blame " God ..because of that history, but I am sure that many have questioned ...why? It sounds very bland when people say " God's ways are past finding out " - but I have to say it is a true staement - (if not a very satisfactory explanation.) "Things " happen, and we don't know why and feel the need to " blame someone "...but why do people blame a God that most of them refuse to admit exists in the first place.? I did find faith in God, and Jesus in later life but it was a voluntary act on my part and not the result of outward pressure from anyone. IF God wanted us all to be like " slaves " we'd all be guiltless of any crime - and queue up with Bibles' under arm outside church on Sundays. The world is not like that. We have our free will to choose what we will / not do, but we are also at the "mercy" of circumstances around us. Most interesting of all Jesus' teachings is his view on eternal life. Many people think only of this life and not if there is an afterlife - an eternal life where our soul liveswill dwell. ( I do not refer to /or believe in any sort of reincarnation, but nevertheless a " Heaven " for the want of another name. I cannot say either, what may await those who do not belive in God? nor do I think that a "vengeful "God will caste them all into a " Hell " like place. I was saw a TV interview where a church man was asked for a similar explanation. He said that he had no answer either, except that " those people who may choose not to live with God - will likely die without him, also! Even in the darkest times, I get strength from my belief in God, even if all my " prayers " may not be answered directly, or in the way I expected.